[Talk-GB] Importing Shell fuel stations

Ilya Zverev ilya at zverev.info
Fri Nov 3 10:59:17 UTC 2017

3 нояб. 2017 г., в 13:21, Andy Townsend <ajt1047 at gmail.com> написал(а):
> On 03/11/2017 09:55, Ilya Zverev wrote:
>> Hi,
>> You might remember a few months ago I discussed here importing of Shell fuel stations. The data provider is Navads, which has a contract with Shell for putting their stations on the map. They asked me to proceed with the import and sent an updated list of the stations.
> Last time you proposed this it took only a few seconds to identify problems with the data.  It's the same this time - at least some of the changes that your map suggests you're proposing to import http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2917373098 are incorrect (address info in this example).

How is the address info there incorrect? Did you see the correct address of the building? Googling shows that amenities there are indeed addressed by Markham Lane, just like the Markham Vale, the business centre that contains these. 

> More serious than address vagueries, what evidence do we have that the new stations that you're adding actually exist in the locations you suggest?  Last time there were serious problems where e.g. a Shell station in a new-build area was allegedly located in the development office of a building site (presumably the only valid address at the time of construction), not conflated with it's actual mapped-in-osm location.

I have received the list from the Shell UK. Are you suggesting I should buy a ticket and verify each of these on the ground? Are there any better sources for Shell fuel stations, or are you implying the UK is a special restricted no-imports-whatsoever territory?

>> I have prepared an import and would like to do it in a few days.
> "a few days" is nowhere near enough time for people to even read this message.

I assumed a week of heated discussions in imports@ and talk-gb@ mailing lists in May would be enough, and we won't start with the same arguments.

>> Please help me review the data. Here is the updated map:
>> http://bl.ocks.org/Zverik/raw/ddcfaf2da25a3dfda00a3d93a62f218d/
> Perhaps you could provide details of what review _you_ have done? Presumably you're getting paid to do this, either directly or indirectly via MAPS.ME's desire to be able to sell advertising based on location.  Why should we do your data validation for you?

Oh for... Of course I'm being paid gigantic piles of money to break your map!

I have explained times and times again: while I do this by a request from Navads via Maps.me, and I get my paycheck from Maps.me monthly, that does not mean any mean intent for my every edit. If you believe otherwise, please set up the autoreverter script (which I open sources for your convenience) on my OSM accounts and show me the door.

We don't receive any money from Shell or Navads. We don't have any advertising contracts with them. We are merely helping Navads get their data on the map — as opposed to their own failed attempts, linked in the past discussions of the same subject. I personally believe our map would be better by having more data from the original sources: not just amenities mappers were lucky to see on their way, but with a comprehensive dataset from the owning company itself.

Do you believe the alternative, that no data belongs to OSM except personally surveyed data?

I have made a numerous talks at conferences this year highlighting this and other similar issues in OSM, and it saddens me that I have changed nothing.

I see many imports every day going unnoticed, and I see this kind of a harsh reaction on proposed imports. It is easy to see why people are reluctant to announce their imports and automated edits beforehand. Until we develop a polite, predictable and mature way of clearing imports, we will continue seeing undiscussed imports and being angry at people who just did not want to be yelled at.


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