[Talk-GB] Importing Shell fuel stations

Andy Townsend ajt1047 at gmail.com
Fri Nov 3 12:06:05 UTC 2017


On 03/11/2017 10:59, Ilya Zverev wrote:
>
> How is the address info there incorrect? Did you see the correct address of the building? Googling shows that amenities there are indeed addressed by Markham Lane, just like the Markham Vale, the business centre that contains these.

I explained the likely chain of events the last time this was discussed:

https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/imports/2017-May/004985.html

Basically, when the place was built the road it is now on 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/393054254 (which based on the signage 
to the south and 
http://ris.dev.openstreetmap.org/oslmusicalchairs/map?osl_id=1001791 is 
called Enterprise Way) did not exist, and the site office was where 
Google thinks everything still is, in an office off Markham Lane.



> I have received the list from the Shell UK. Are you suggesting I should buy a ticket and verify each of these on the ground? Are there any better sources for Shell fuel stations, or are you implying the UK is a special restricted no-imports-whatsoever territory?

No, I'm suggest that you (or whoever's doing this import) sanity-check 
the data that you get from third parties against what's already in OSM.  
David Woolley's already said "company head offices are notorious, in my 
view, for failing to map their branches at the correct location"; here 
it looked like someone at Shell had to fill in address details on a 
form, but couldn't use e.g. the correct road because it did not exist 
yet, so made up some values to fill in the fields to avoid "computer 
says no" and that's never been updated at Shell's end.


>
> I assumed a week of heated discussions in imports@ and talk-gb@ mailing lists in May would be enough, and we won't start with the same arguments.

What would be good would be if you fixed the problems raised there. 
Street names were raised as an issue here:

https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/imports/2017-May/004974.html


>
> ... I personally believe our map would be better by having more data 
> from the original sources: 

Agreed, if the data is correct (and it's going to be maintained, as I 
presume it is here).  The problem here seems to be that it isn't correct 
in the first place.


>
> I see many imports every day going unnoticed, and I see this kind of a harsh reaction on proposed imports. It is easy to see why people are reluctant to announce their imports and automated edits beforehand. Until we develop a polite, predictable and mature way of clearing imports, we will continue seeing undiscussed imports and being angry at people who just did not want to be yelled at.
You're not being yelled at.  You're being told that some data that you 
want to import is incorrect, as you were back in May.

Where data may be iffy / need conflation there are are lots of 
alternatives to "let's dump the data in OSM and let the community figure 
it out after the event" - for example look at the way schools (including 
in relatively unmapped areas) were mapped in the UK as part of a 
project.  Shell stations by there very nature tend to be on major roads; 
I'd be surprised if many of the new ones (and things like brand changes) 
weren't visible from e.g. Mapillary to at least verify the location.  
Similarly, any human that looks at the address example I gave ("house 
number 29a", which is obviously the motorway junction ref) is unlikely 
to be valid.  Similarly for the address issues that Richard has raised.

Best Regards,

Andy




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