[Talk-GB] 'historic' county boundaries added to the database

Neil Matthews ndmatthews at plus.net
Sun Aug 26 23:27:55 UTC 2018

*If* there are used for looking up addresses, then there is some very
slight advantage to having them -- I still occasionally see
websites/people referring to Avon :-)


On 26/08/2018 23:49, Dave F wrote:

> Hi
> To repeat, They do exist, but only as a record of old data, not
> current. just as there's a record of Humberside & Avon. That they
> don't get altered is irrelevant.
> I disagree about their legality.
> DaveF
> On 26/08/2018 23:01, Adam Snape wrote:
>> Hi,
>> Both Colin and Dave have repeated the implication that the
>> traditional counties don't exist. It's very much arguable I guess,
>> certainly successive governments have made clear that they recognised
>> the continued existence of the traditional counties, and that
>> administrative changes neither legally abolished nor altered these
>> counties.
>> On Sun, 26 Aug 2018, 22:01 Colin Smale, <colin.smale at xs4all.nl
>> <mailto:colin.smale at xs4all.nl>> wrote:
>>     Except that the "ceremonial counties" actually do exist, and
>>     serve a function. They are formally called "Lieutenancy Areas"
>>     and represent the jurisdiction of the Lord Lieutenant as direct
>>     representative of the monarchy. Their boundaries are maintained
>>     by a different legal process to the admin areas, and on occasions
>>     can diverge for a limited period until they catch up with changes
>>     to admin boundaries. And then there is the Stockton-on-Tees
>>     anomaly...the borough is divided between the ceremonial counties
>>     of Durham and North Yorkshire.
>> Thanks Colin,
>> Yes, I was aware of how the ceremonial counties are defined. I think
>> if we're truly honest with ourselves we don't really map them because
>> lord lieutenancies (as wonderfully arcane and obscure as they are)
>> are of any real importance, but because they provide a vaguely
>> sensible and recognisable set of geographic areas that we can call
>> counties. Certainly if administrative importance were genuinely to be
>> our criteria for mapping we would be mapping all kinds of things
>> prior to lord lieutenancies.
>> In practical terms lords lieutenant are historic, honorary crown
>> appointments and little more. If we actually believed this was
>> justification for mapping we could use the same arguments for mapping
>> the areas over which the royal duchies of Lancaster and Cornwall
>> perform various honorary and historic functions (such as appointing
>> the ever-so-important-in-the-present-day lords lieutenant) and
>> exercise special rights. Incidentally their legally-defined and
>> extant boundaries are the historic/traditional boundaries of the
>> counties of Lancashire and Cornwall :)
>> Kind regards,
>> Adam
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