[Talk-GB] Edits in Wales

[Miguel Sevilla-Callejo]

Hello,

As a foreigner and someone arriving to a place where people are using both
languages (my experience is living for almost 2 years in Aberystwyth, North
Wales) I'm still thinking you should use both names for "name" tag as you
can see on official maps (not only OS maps) or signs. I'm thinking in
street names not in place names, where you could have more idea if Welsh or
English name is common.

Sorry to insist but you will undermine, especially, Welsh names, for a
generic rendering that uses "name" tags. Think about that.

Of course, for me, it's a must to fill "name:cy" and "name:en" too.

Moreover, there is nothing except an aesthetic problem, to use the "mix"
approach for "name". What's the point to not use same approach used in
other multilingual places of the World?

May be we could discuss that in the generic/global Talk mail list to know
other opinions.

Cheers

Miguel

--
*Miguel Sevilla-Callejo*
Doctor en Geografía

On 25 March 2018 at 20:30, Curon Davies <curond at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Ben,
>
> A general response to your points:
>
>>
>>    - There is no single name for many places. In Wales most places have
>>    a name that they are called when communicating in English and a name that
>>    they are called when communicating in Welsh. In neither language are both
>>    names used.
>>
>>  Informally some English names are used in Welsh, but vice versa is less
> likely.
>
>>
>>    - So the most important thing is that we label them with the English
>>    and Welsh name tags
>>
>>
>>    - What then should we include in the "name" tag? Including both
>>    alternates seems, at first sight, like an attractive solution.
>>
>> It should be noted that both OS and Harvey maps generally include both
> names, it would be nice if the default OSM renderer reflected this.
>
>
>>
>>    - But what about the city of Henffordd or the town of Amwythig? They
>>    have Welsh names and English names so the logic would be to use both in the
>>    name tag. Except Hereford - Henffordd and Shrewsbury - Amwythig are in
>>    England and, I suspect, there would not be support to use bilingual names
>>    in OSM outside of the current boundary of Wales. I don't challenge that but
>>    I'd see it as a political judgement about the boundaries of Wales and the
>>    status of the Welsh language within the United Kingdom rather than a
>>    mapping decision.
>>
>> The two examples mentioned are in English only on an OS maps, but
> Oswestry (Croesoswallt) is named in both English and Welsh, despite being
> over the border.
>
>>
>>    - In the UK generally "name" refers to the name by which it is known
>>    when communicating in English. It seems most straightforward, and least
>>    politically fraught, to me to continue this practice in Wales,.
>>
>> OS maps including both, although arguably this is a rendering problem.
> Why shouldn't OSM reflect this?
>
>>
>>    - The fundamental problem is that there is no "name" which is
>>    correct. In the medium term, as long as the name:cy and name:en are correct
>>    then the value of "name" should become less significant. Then it can be up
>>    to the user to decide if they want to display English, Welsh or both (and
>>    if both which language taking priority).
>>
>> The problem currently, is that display choice isn't available.
>
> Regards
> Curon
>
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