[Talk-GB] Importing NaPTAN Data

Silent Spike silentspike100 at gmail.com
Mon Jul 1 16:35:12 UTC 2019

Thanks for sharing your insight and expertise Stuart.

I can see why there might be resistance to importing data. Personally, I
take the view that it saves a lot of time even if it's not perfect
(progress being incremental and all). The majority of bus stops near me in
OSM were added by myself and that's taken a long time. If the data had been
imported already then it would be much quicker to see where stops are and
then simply verify/update the data that's there. With that in mind, that's
basically all I'm proposing - a set of human reviewed mechanical edits
specifically for the Aberdeen area as I'm familiar with it. Looking at the
data already I can see that most of it matches up with bus stops I've
mapped and some are a couple of meters off the true position.

To more accurately define the scope of what I'd like to do:

   1. Import data specifically for the Aberdeen admin area (ATCO code 639)
   2. Import stops of type BCT ("On-street Bus / Coach / Trolley Stop.")
   3. Import BCT stops of type MKD ("Marked (pole, shelter etc)")
   4. Manually conflate and review the data before upload
   5. Split the edits up according to the "LocalityName" data field
   (basically districts from what I can tell)

If I'm able to make it through that process then a methodology will have
been established which perhaps others can use for their areas too. Then
perhaps I can investigate other types of stop (hail and ride, custom,
flexible) and transport.

As for `naptan:` tagging (
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/NaPTAN/Tag_mappings), I guess I'm just
not sure why much of that data has to be present in OSM. Surely just the
identifier is enough as it provides a link to the NaPTAN data itself.

On Mon, Jul 1, 2019 at 4:21 PM Stuart Reynolds <
stuart at travelinesoutheast.org.uk> wrote:

> Hi Spike,
> There are two aspects to your question. The first is around mechanical
> edits (i.e. importing NaPTAN), and I’ll defer to the group for that because
> while I would like to use NaPTAN (matained, mostly) to update OSM (not
> maintained, mostly) across the UK, there is resistance to that - and it is
> because of that “mostly” issue, because in some areas bus stops have been
> more accurately surveyed.
> However, one of my many hats (as a consultant) is as the DfT’s “Public
> Transport Data Standards” expert (Transport is a devolved power, but the
> Scottish Parliament usually keeps Scotland broadly aligned with England).
> If you want to know specific things about NaPTAN fields, then I can tell
> you what they are for and why we need them - either email me direct, or
> reply here if you think that it would be more widely interesting. That is
> particularly true of stop points which are “Custom & Practice” or “Hail &
> Ride” which are not marked on the ground at all (so are perhaps irrelevant
> from a mapping perspective), but are nevertheless valid stopping points
> (and very important from a PT perspective)
> As a general note to both you and the wider community, the (English) Bus
> Services Act 2017 provides powers to compel Local Authorities to maintain
> NaPTAN data, and there are steps being discussed to assist in bulk
> “improvements” to the stop data ahead of the timetable provision which is
> intended to commence Jan 2020, mandatory by Jan 2021 (these dates all in
> the public domain, by the way). There is a similar Bill going through
> Holyrood at present, but I don’t know precisely what powers it will contain
> or what dates it will mandate.
> Regards,
> Stuart Reynolds
> for traveline south east and anglia
> On 1 Jul 2019, at 16:02, Silent Spike <silentspike100 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey folks,
> I'm interested in importing NaPTAN bus stop data (
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/NaPTAN/Import) specifically for my
> area of the UK (Aberdeen).
> As far as I can tell, some progress was made previously on importing
> NaPTAN data for specific areas of the UK. However, the process for
> requesting an import on the wiki seems to have broken down somewhere along
> the line and I believe the python script mentioned on the wiki is outdated.
> I went ahead and wrote a 5 minute python 3 script to convert the NaPTAN
> csv bus stops file into OSM XML which I can import using JOSM. I'm
> splitting the data into files by local area - here's an example of an area
> I'm familiar with (https://i.imgur.com/xE7TF2c.png) where you can see the
> import data (blue) line up well with the existing data (black).
> My plan for conflation was basically to do it by hand since I'm familiar
> with the area and can take my time to do each local area individually.
> However, I could probably also set up some data matching by checking the
> stop names and offsets of existing data.
> As for tagging, I'm unsure what the current status is regarding the
> `naptan:` namespace. Looking at those tags, they all seem pretty useless to
> me (except `naptan:AtcoCode` as an identifier). Currently I'm just using
> roadside bus stops marked with a shelter or pole and following the PTv2
> scheme to tag them as `highway=bus_stop`, `public_transport_platform` and
> `bus=yes`.
> If anyone has any suggestions or input please let me know! Obviously I
> won't be importing anything without some community approval first.
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