[Talk-GB] Gates open/closed by default

Warin 61sundowner at gmail.com
Fri Jul 26 11:28:31 UTC 2019

On 26/07/19 21:06, Colin Smale wrote:
> I guess what we are trying to get out of this, is:
> a) as a router, can i feel free to route "Joe Public" through here?
If the gate is open - yes.
If the gate is closed and unlocked - yes.
If the gate is closed and locked - no.

I would expect an access tag would be used if 'Joe' were not allowed or 
inhibited is some way e.g opening_hours, max_height.

> b) as a router, how much time penalty should i factor in for passing 
> this gate?

Depends. In Australia the gate would be an extension of a fence line. 
Fence lines are where animals tend to run at speed and collide with 
Even if open I tend to slow, if there is plant cover obscuring the 
view10 mph or less, even then I have had a roo collide with the side of 
my vehicle. I stopped, it took off and failed to render details... hit 
and run.

If closed and fastened I have spent a good 10 minutes figuring out how 
to open then close the thing! Most are a minute, but ..
The more difficult one can be seen as an intelligence test, if you pass 
the test you can enter :)

> Anything else?
Good luck.
> On 2019-07-26 12:58, Warin wrote:
>> To bring a little international perspective to this.
>> In outback Australia the convention is "leave the gate as you found 
>> it". Unfortunately there are some who don't.
>> To cope with this problem some gates are hung so that they close 
>> under gravity.
>> To keep these open the farmer locks the gate open. Few people stop 
>> and try to close the gate, and are defeated by the lock anyway.
>> So indicating that a gate is locked .. says little as to if it is 
>> open or closed to me.
>> I think the 2 conditions need to be separated and not assumed;
>> locked = yes/no
>> closed = yes/no
>> Not certain how to handle automatic - I think they are mostly 
>> automatically closing only, some do both closing and opening and 
>> there is the possibility of automatically opening only. Err some may 
>> have automatic lock features too...
>> In addition some gates are fastened, but can be manually opened if 
>> you figure out the mechanism (some are quite inventive!). A problem I 
>> have found is on re-fastening these inventive mechanisms .. can take 
>> some time to remember it or reinvent it. Perhaps these should be 
>> called 'locked' and the above 'key_locked'???
>> On 26/07/19 20:26, Gareth L wrote:
>>> This was discussed on the wiki 
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:barrier%3Dgate 
>>> <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:barrier%3Dgate> with 
>>> the suggestion of using a status tag. And was also discussed (9 
>>> years ago?!) 
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2010-May/thread.html 
>>> <https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2010-May/thread.html>
>>> Tagging things as access=private does impact routing a lot, so I'd 
>>> evaluate that use carefully.
>>> Gareth
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> *From:* Andy Robinson <ajrlists at gmail.com>
>>> *Sent:* Friday, July 26, 2019 10:55:37 AM
>>> *To:* 'Stephen Colebourne' <scolebourne at joda.org>; 'talk-gb OSM 
>>> List' <talk-gb at openstreetmap.org>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-GB] Gates open/closed by default
>>> If a gate opens automatically I would say it's an access=yes 
>>> regardless of how the way is tagged.
>>> Cheers
>>> Andy
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Stephen Colebourne [mailto:scolebourne at joda.org]
>>> Sent: 26 July 2019 10:47
>>> To: talk-gb OSM List
>>> Subject: [Talk-GB] Gates open/closed by default
>>> I'd like to distinguish between two kinds of gate on private roads:
>>> - those where the gate is closed by default (eg automatic closing)
>>> - those where the gate is open by default (the gate exists, but is
>>> rarely if ever closed)
>>> Currently I'm marking both as barrier=gate & access=private, but I
>>> can't see an obvoius way to mark the open/closed by default aspect.
>>> One thought was to use access=permissive on those that are open (with
>>> the highway still access=private).
>>> Any suggestions?
>>> Stephen
>>> PS, I do want to mark the gate on the map even if it is always open

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