[Talk-GB] Idea - OSMUK walkers' map application -- -& server

Seán Lynch seanlynch at umail.ucc.ie
Fri Dec 11 21:03:43 UTC 2020


Hi all,

As people enjoy their walk, we would love if you could consider uploading
any plastic / litter data into OpenLitterMap <http://openlittermap.com>

Right now the only way to add data is using our platform, but we will open
our API hopefully next year and allow uploads from other developers.

<goog_1923936973>
github.com/openlittermap

TeamLitterUK is currently in 1st place globally for uploading the most data

Litter mapping has a remarkably low barrier to entry, allowing for
potentially many more people to get involved with data collection and
mapping

Cheers,

Seán

On Fri, 11 Dec 2020 at 15:05, Nick Whitelegg via Talk-GB <
talk-gb at openstreetmap.org> wrote:

>
> Hello Andy,
>
> Thanks for this.
>
> My own feeling regarding what server we need is "start small, to get it
> going" and then as soon as OSMUK can commit to funding (*if* they can, of
> course) and/or several people share the cost, then scale up. Hetzner's
> model is very flexible in this regard, for instance I started with an 8GB
> RAM VM before I found it wasn't quite adequate for my needs and upgraded
> the same VM to the 16GB version (and added some disc space, I think, too).
> For now I am willing to spend a small amount (below EUR/GBP 5) for a month
> or two to get things going if there's sufficient interest.
>
> I'd broadly agree to an extent about going the Mapnik route although I
> would prefer another person with more experience in the niceties of current
> Mapnik stylesheet development to do large-scale tweaks;  I would be happy
> to do *small*​ tweaks on such things as, for example, making designations
> appear in a similar style to Landranger which might be an idea for
> familiarity purposes. On the other hand, vector rendering would have some
> advantages for the aims of this project - an interactive map of the
> countryside in which POIs and paths can be clicked to add/retrieve
> information. I believe Tangram can do this quite easily; I have dabbled in
> Tangram and it's quite easy to setup a simple stylesheet though haven't
> tried it with anything complex. Tangram also has some nice things like
> being able to be rendered in both isometric and (via A-Frame components,
> https://aframe.io) even in 3D. I have to admit having a personal like for
> the vector approach,   it shifts more processing onto the client, good in a
> world where standard client hardware, desktop and mobile, is pretty
> powerful while powerful server hardware is expensive.
>
> I wouldn't personally be so fussed about things like minutely updates
> until it becomes a 'production' map, while in development mode I think the
> best approach is to keep it simple and cheap to run. In terms of my own
> projects I do quite rigorous filtering of the OSM data before populating
> the DB, to reject things mostly of interest to urban areas which only use
> up space and resources in a walking-oriented map. Another way of keeping
> initial costs down would be to concentrate on one or a few counties,
> ideally well-mapped ones with many ROWs, hills, water features etc.
>
> So I'd be quite happy - *if*​ there's interest - to setup a cheaper
> Hetzner server for now. If we want to go the mapnik route I'd be happy to
> do a basic setup there as well, as in, get mod_tile working and use your
> style unmodified. My main personal contribution to the project would be to
> work on the server- and client-side scripting necessary to develop an
> interactive POI map. We'd also of course need people with strong web design
> and UX skills - alas, mine are not so great!
>
> As for other points - things like https cert renewal seem easy with Let's
> Encrypt; have been using that succesfully for a while now.
>
> Nick
>
>
> *Nick Whitelegg*
> *Senior Lecturer in Computing (Internet)*  *|* School of Media Arts and
> Technology
> Southampton Solent University  *|* RM424 *|* East Park Terrace *|* Southampton
> SO14 0YN
> T: 023 8201 3075 *|* E: nick.whitelegg at solent.ac.uk *|* W: solent.ac.uk
> <http://www.solent.ac.uk/>
>
> Disclaimer <http://www.solent.ac.uk/disclaimer/disclaimer.aspx>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Andy Townsend <ajt1047 at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* 11 December 2020 13:40
> *To:* talk-gb at openstreetmap.org <talk-gb at openstreetmap.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-GB] Idea - OSMUK walkers' map application -- -&
> server
>
>
>
> On 11/12/2020 09:59, Nick Whitelegg via Talk-GB wrote:
>
>
> In the early stages I think we could run it on cheap hosting hardware,
> like most projects in the OSM ecosystem. I suspect for a while usage would
> be light and limited to those in the OSM community. I use Hetzner for my
> hosting (OpenTrailView, Hikar, MapThePaths) - I pay around EUR 19/month but
> that is for a larger system that has to deal with the whole of Europe
> rather than just the UK.
>
>  https://www.hetzner.com/cloud?country=gb
>
> The second-lowest spec of these, the CPX11 is giving you 2GB RAM and 40GB
> disc space for EUR 4.19 a month. OK we'd need more than that long term, but
> I suspect that would get us going in the early stages.
>
>
> That'll depending on what you want the server to do, I think.  For an OSM
> Carto Map style with automatic updates and reasonable performance you'll
> probably need > 6Gb memory for the whole of the UK these days.  Maybe a
> CX31 at €11 per month (i.e. about the price of a couple of pints and a
> "substantial" pork pie for those in tier 2)?  https://map.atownsend.org.uk
> is a CX41 I believe, and renders Mapnik / Carto CSS map tiles that cover UK
> and Ireland.  It could probably include another "medium sized OSM country"
> in the same map style as well without too many problems.
>
>
> On the question of "could we show feature X" (e.g. "cycleways with
> foot=yes" different to "cycleways with foot=no) the answer is technically
> yes, but you need to decide which subset of features you want to show
> because there simply aren't enough ways of visually distinguishing things
> that users can actually tell apart, especially when combined with other
> features.
>
>
> As an example, have a look at the legend at
> https://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#zoom=16&lat=-24.98988&lon=135.10862
> .  That shows:
>
>    - designation (public footpath / bridleway / retricted byway / BOAT /
>    UCR / none)
>    - width - either "narrow" (not wide enough for a 4 wheeled vehicle) or
>    "wide" (wide enough)
>    - trail_visibility
>    - some surface information (unclassified unpaved roads rendered
>    differently to paved roads)
>    - tunnel yes/no
>    - long ford yes/no
>    - bridge yes/no
>    - embankment yes/no
>    - long distance foot / bicycle / horse riding routes
>    - access=destination and =private viewed from a pedestrian perspective
>
> and of course combinations of the above.
>
>
> It does not show:
>
>    - explicit OSM keys (e.g. footway/cycleway/path/bridleway)
>    - explicit OSM access tags (e.g. "foot=yes or no on a cycleway")
>    - undesignated cycleways differently from other undesignated paths
>
> In order to one of those (for example just "displaying cycleways as
> cycleways") you'd need to remove something else that's already rendered,
> otherwise users won't be able to tell features apart.
>
>
> Assuming that people are planning to go down the mod_tile / Mapnik / Carto
> CSS route, I'd suggest:
>
>    1. decide what zoom levels you want, which will influence exactly
>    which software to use
>    2. deciding where to start from (e.g OSM's Standard style, mine, or a
>    different one altogether)
>    3. deciding exactly what you want to change
>    4. make those changes,
>    5. see what "unintended consequences" have occurred
>    6. fix those and iterate round until happy
>
> Assuming you can deal a couple of hours overnight downtime while the
> database reloads I'd suggest doing most of the "deciding what to show as
> different things" work in lua and the "deciding what to show it as" in
> Carto CSS.  It's much easier to understand and to maintain.
>
>
> With regard to the "boring bit" (scripts to load databases, keep databases
> up to date etc.) most of the stuff used by https://map.atownsend.org.uk
> is public (links to everything are at the top of the changelog).  Much of
> the rest (e.g. automatic https certificate renewal) is standard and is
> documented in 1000s of other places around the internet.  If anyone wants
> any help or advice with any of the above please just ask.
>
>
> There may be a temptation to think "the end goal is a phone app , so
> actually we probably want to look at $some_other_technology instead".  I
> would strongly suggest following a well-trodden path first while so that
> the things that are new to whoever is doing this are have well-documented
> solutions.  I haven't yet found a vector tile stack that is (a) well
> documented and (b) free of vendor lock-in that could go on
> https://switch2osm.org/serving-tiles/ yet, for example.  Once whoever is
> doing this is familiar with things, trying something a bit more
> off-the-wall will be more likely to work without everything breaking.
>
>
> The biggest requirement is for someone to actually commit to doing the
> work to set something up - nothing will happen without this.  If OSM UK are
> happy to fund a server, and for it to fit in their DNS somewhere then
> that's one less expense to worry about - but someone still needs to do the
> work.
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
> Andy
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Talk-GB at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>


-- 
https://openlittermap.com @OpenLitterMap (Fb, Tw, Ig)
M.Sc. Coastal & Marine Environments (NUIG, 2015)
M.Sc. GIS & Remote Sensing (UCC, 2014)
B.A. Geography & Economics (UCC, 2011)
ie.linkedin.com/in/seanlynchgis
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