[Talk-GB] driveway-becomes-track

Sun Dec 13 11:04:57 UTC 2020

Hi everyone,

I notice I'm being CCed in quite a bit here.

Just to make it clear, there are at least two "Nick"s on the thread. I just made the comment about Noverton Farm - it's another Nick who has made most of the contributions.

It's an interesting thread but just want to make sure that I am not being attributed to posts I didn't make.

Thanks,
Nick

________________________________
From: Peter Neale <nealepb at yahoo.co.uk>
Sent: 13 December 2020 10:44
To: Nick Whitelegg <nick.whitelegg at solent.ac.uk>; Edward Bainton <bainton.ete at gmail.com>
Cc: talk-gb at openstreetmap.org <talk-gb at openstreetmap.org>
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] driveway-becomes-track

IMHO, if it leads on to another road, track, etc. it is not a "driveway", but could be a track, a bridleway, a service road, or something else.

The Wiki says that a driveway is (with my bold for emphasis),

" ... a minor service road leading to a residential or business property. It typically branches from a bigger road and leads toward an entrance to a specific destination (building, etc.). It may end at or pass the entrance, but either way, it gets close to its destination. It is rare for a driveway to be the way to access another roadway (but see Pipestems below)."

(pipestems allow a driveway to be shared between several properties)

So if, in this case, it leads on to another way (e.g. a bridleway, or a track), it is not a driveway.  Does this solve the problem?

Regards,
Peter

Peter Neale
t: 01908 309666
m: 07968 341930
skype: nealepb

On Sunday, 13 December 2020, 10:25:46 GMT, Edward Bainton <bainton.ete at gmail.com> wrote:

Sorry, I joined this thread late and I see the initial query was, How to ensure tracks don't just pop up nowhere'. So driveway first then track doesn't solve the problem.

That makes me say track all the way, as someone else has said. The different surfaces can be caught in the attributes.

On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 at 10:08, Edward Bainton <bainton.ete at gmail.com<mailto:bainton.ete at gmail.com>> wrote:
>  https://85a.uk/noverton_farm_1280x800.jpg
>
> It seems daft to me that the mud gets rendered but not the hardcore. If
> I change the "driveway" to "track" that would be the dreaded tagging for
> the renderer would it not? Generally in this part of the world "track"
> means mud, rather than a roadway suitable for all vehicles.

I don't know what part of the world you're in, but by my Fenland lights, I'd probably call that a track, not a driveway - certainly once it passes the farm buildings (since I see a driveway as implying car-worthy access to a building).

Would that solve it? Driveway as far as the farm and then track?

I'm going to risk blasphemy and suggest that tagging for the renderer is what we all do, all day (or why map?). The problem imo is "fudging it for the renderer", or "outright lying for the renderer". In this case, I'd say track is a valid choice - I think even for the whole length, if by "driveway" we infer something, short, tidy, and suburban.

But I'm still a spring chicken round here, relatively speaking, and I await correction by my olders.

On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 at 09:09, Nick Whitelegg via Talk-GB <talk-gb at openstreetmap.org<mailto:talk-gb at openstreetmap.org>> wrote:
>Getting back to this case, this is the farm drive. Beyond the
>cattle-grid the public bridleway continues left through the farm
>buildings, and the surface deteriorates to the usual farm mud:

  >https://85a.uk/noverton_farm_1280x800.jpg

Apologies for going off topic, but I knew that name (Noverton Farm) sounded familiar.

A quick check of where it is would explain why. In 1998 I did a  long distance walk from Sussex to the Peak District, following ordinary footpaths (planned using OS maps) and went through this area, the Teme Valley. It was very nice but the footpaths were in an appaling state of disrepair, I remember on several occasions that day having to scramble through dense shrub cover and attempt to negotiate barbed-wire fences. I seem to recall Noverton Farm as being the site of some particularly badly-maintained footpaths.

As an aside this walk is what indirectly got me into OSM. I wanted to illustrate the walk on the internet but OS licensing did not permit it, which is how I started Freemap and then later got involved with OSM. I still haven't illustrated this walk incidentally, but...

Would be interested to find out if the area has improved since..

Nick

________________________________
From: Martin Wynne <martin at templot.com<mailto:martin at templot.com>>
Sent: 12 December 2020 14:30
To: talk-gb at openstreetmap.org<mailto:talk-gb at openstreetmap.org> <talk-gb at openstreetmap.org<mailto:talk-gb at openstreetmap.org>>
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] driveway-becomes-track

On 12/12/2020 13:15, Andy Townsend wrote:

>
> Ultimately, if "something needs doing", "someone" will need to do it.
> Perhaps that someone is you?

Hi Andy,

Yes that someone could be me. I have a server (located in Columbus,
Ohio) on which I am using only a fraction of the available memory space
and bandwidth. I have been thinking of making better use of it, possibly
by hosting something from OSM.

 >  I'd suggest setting up a copy of the
 > standard map rendering as per https://switch2osm.org/serving-tiles/
 > (just for Worcestershire would be fine) and start tinkering with the
 > logic that decides what sort of service road is what, such as
 >
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/blob/b10aef3866bacf387581b8fea4eec265010b0d14/project.mml#L475

Thanks. I have been looking at https://switch2osm.org/serving-tiles/ but
I have a lot to learn. I can do Windows programming, but on stuff for
the web I'm only a dabbler. I looked at Mapnik and saw interfaces only
for Python and C. If that had been Pascal, I would have dived in by now.

I will have another look and see where I might start. The idea of
creating my own map does appeal to me.

Getting back to this case, this is the farm drive. Beyond the
cattle-grid the public bridleway continues left through the farm
buildings, and the surface deteriorates to the usual farm mud:

  https://85a.uk/noverton_farm_1280x800.jpg

It seems daft to me that the mud gets rendered but not the hardcore. If
I change the "driveway" to "track" that would be the dreaded tagging for
the renderer would it not? Generally in this part of the world "track"
means mud, rather than a roadway suitable for all vehicles.

This is where the farm drive leaves the road - this is definitely more
than a "track" - note the double gates:

  https://goo.gl/maps/XEs4XKs5UUHNBt8E8

cheers,

Martin.

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