[Talk-GB] Tagging bike ramp/ bike path down steps

Jon Pennycook jon.pennycook at gmail.com
Mon Dec 14 17:25:32 UTC 2020


Yes -  step_count is also very useful

Jon

On Mon, 14 Dec 2020 at 17:21, Michael Collinson <mike at ayeltd.biz> wrote:

> FYI, here's the schema I personally use in Sweden, where heavy use is made
> of ramped staircases, though not thankfully on major cycle routes. My
> objective is to allow routers to intelligently route for both
> sport/club/large group riding and happy meandering or commute:
>
> bicycle=yes only on very shallow low incline steps where it is is safe and
> practical to cycle an ordinary bike - not common but does happen. Sometimes
> on shallow slopes a gravelled or informal path to one side also exists.
>
> where there is a ramp:
> ramp=yes
> bicycle=dismount   (here I am tagging on practicality rather than
> legalities, Sweden is much more relaxed than UK)
> ramp:stroller=yes   where it is a double ramp, (a forgotten transport
> demographic)
>
> on short or low-incline flights of steps where an alternate route would be
> much longer:
> bicycle=carry (informal/experimental)
>
> I also strongly encourage step_count=x as that gives a bicycle router more
> quantitative input on whether to route or avoid.
>
> And lastly from unnerving Spanish experience, some sort of hazard tagging
> at the top of steps where a formal cycle route plunges down a steep flight
> of steps around a corner!
>
> Mike
>
> On 2020-12-14 17:34, Jon Pennycook wrote:
>
> resending as I think I sent it from the wrong email address.
>
> However, blue advisory signs about HGVs are tagged as hgv=discouraged, not
> as hgv=yes despite there being a legal right of way for HGVs (sometimes,
> similar signs are shown for all vehicles, eg on fords or ORPAs) - see
> "discouraged" at
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access#Land-based_transportation
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Bicycle#Bicycle_Restrictions says
> bicycle=dismount should be used for 'signs saying "Cyclists dismount"'.
>
> Any sensible router should know that most bicycles ought to dismount for
> most steps in the same way they might suggest getting off and walking on a
> short footway. Specifying bicycle=yes on steps may override the built-in
> default (I think it does for CycleStreets).
>
> I would suggest not having a bicycle tag at all on steps in preference to
> bicycle=yes on steps. Ramp:bicycle=yes/no is a useful tag though.
>
> Jon
>
> On Mon, 14 Dec 2020 at 15:31, Jon Pennycook <jon.pennycook at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> However, blue advisory signs about HGVs are tagged as hgv=discouraged,
>> not as hgv=yes despite there being a legal right of way for HGVs
>> (sometimes, similar signs are shown for all vehicles, eg on fords or ORPAs)
>> - see "discouraged" at
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access#Land-based_transportation
>>
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Bicycle#Bicycle_Restrictions says
>> bicycle=dismount should be used for 'signs saying "Cyclists dismount"'.
>>
>> Any sensible router should know that most bicycles ought to dismount for
>> most steps in the same way they might suggest getting off and walking on a
>> short footway. Specifying bicycle=yes on steps may override the built-in
>> default (I think it does for CycleStreets).
>>
>> I would suggest not having a bicycle tag at all on steps in preference to
>> bicycle=yes on steps. Ramp:bicycle=yes/no is a useful tag though.
>>
>> Jon
>>
>> On Mon, 14 Dec 2020 at 11:04, Simon Still <simon.still at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 13 Dec 2020, at 19:18, Edward Catmur via Talk-GB <
>>> talk-gb at openstreetmap.org> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 13 Dec 2020, 19:14 David Woolley, <forums at david-woolley.me.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 13/12/2020 19:05, Edward Catmur via Talk-GB wrote:
>>>> > Also, the steps should have bicycle=dismount, not =yes. This will
>>>> allow
>>>> > people who can't dismount to go around by the road.
>>>>
>>>> Only if it is illegal to try to cycle up and down the steps.  Otherwise
>>>> it is the duty of the renderer (router) to infer that this will be
>>>> necessary because of the steps.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The sign visible on Mapillary says (white on blue) "Steps ahead cyclists
>>> dismount". That seems pretty clear to me.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> White on Blue ‘cyclists dismount’ signs are only advisory.  It may be
>>> foolish to cycle down (or up) the steps but it’s not illegal.
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
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