[Talk-GB] What is needed for something to be classified as a 'cycle route' (London)

Robert Skedgell rob at hubris.org.uk
Tue Dec 15 14:35:24 UTC 2020

On 15/12/2020 13:26, Simon Still wrote:
> See discussion on 
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/95752985#map=18/51.46201/-0.12146&layers=C
> <https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/95752985#map=18/51.46201/-0.12146&layers=C>
> There appear to be a large number of sections of road in some areas of
> London tagged as ‘cycle route’ that are no more than the occasional 1057
> cycle symbol painted on the road.
> They are not signed, and do not have any route numbering.

Some of the LCN/LCN+ routes are signed with blue directional signs, but
often without route numbers.

You would need recent street level imagery or a survey to determine
whether a route really has degraded to only fading TSRGD diagram 1057
signs ("Cycle lane, track or route"). If 1057 is used on a carriageway
rather than on a lane or track, it presumably indicates a route,
although TSRGD 2016 does not elaborate upon this - is there an LTN which

I am not very familiar with the area discussed in the changeset above,
but routes I have used in LB Hackney this summer certainly were.

> Based on the discussion it appears
> - most were added by user MacLondon 
> - they were the ‘lowest level’ of route designation by some councils at
> some time in the past. Pick some ‘useful routes’ on ‘quiet roads’ and
> just paint some symbols on them for people to follow 
> Some of these appear on the last 2015 TfL cycle maps in yellow (routes
> were blue) keyed as ‘other roads recommended by cyclists’ 
> My opinion is
> - these are not followable on the ground 
> - they do not meet TfL or borough quality criteria (and thus do not
> appear on any more recent maps) eg - they are not shown in any way on
> Lambeth councils 2017 cycle
> map https://www.lambeth.gov.uk/parking-transport-and-streets/cycling/lambeth-cycle-routes-map
> <https://www.lambeth.gov.uk/parking-transport-and-streets/cycling/lambeth-cycle-routes-map>

I wouldn't trust most borough councils here, as the older LCN/LCN+
routes are likely to be the responsibility of TfL/GLA.

> - they decrease legibility of the map because they create a mass of
> dense blue lines from which it’s hard to pick out genuinely useful routes.
> - they probably have a negative impact on routing engines as they are
> likely treated equally to actual signposted routes. 
> - in many cases where they do show the most direct route through
> backstreets that is likely to be the busiest with rat running traffic as
> it’s where google and Waze will send drivers. 

Unless there's a new modal filter as part of a Low Traffic
Neighbourhood, obviously.

> Thoughts?
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