[Talk-GB] Using UPRNs to find flats?

Thu Apr 1 13:37:18 UTC 2021

I've been attempting a reasonably complete survey of house numbers and apartment numbering in my neck of the woods.   Here's a bestiary of the various types I've come across, all within a few miles of each other.   (All feedback on the tagging welcome)-
 * Ordinary block of apartments, where the individual unit numbers follow the street numbering- e.g. it's just No. 10, Acacia Avenue, even though it's a flat in a block - https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/834674028 or https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/848942685
 * As above, but with peculiar choice of As and Bs https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/902648940  & https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/857863318
 * Four-storey blocks with ground-floor doorways into ground-floor, two-storey apartments, and third-floor front-doors off elevated walkways.  Tagged with individual addr:housenumbers for the ground-floor doors, and with housenumber ranges for the doors to the walkways.  https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/696379801  & https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/853255297
 * As above but with really peculiar number sequences - https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/806849373
 * Blocks with a single addr:housenumber, and addr:flats numbers hiding behind it. https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/381202337
 * Blocks with truly demented number ranges spanning multiple buildings in multiple ways.   Tagged as individual points.  https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/912875825  & neighbour https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/806849318
I've found it's quite possible to tag everything I've come across, but I would welcome a way to assert that a number range like addr:housenumber=1-15 (or addr:flats=1-15) is odd-only or all numbers.    Something like this, maybe: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/addr:interval   (as discussed previously in this forum, addr:interpolation is not suitable for this, as it's currently documented).

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https://hdyc.neis-one.org/?spiregrain
spiregrain_osm at ksglp.org.uk

On Thu, 1 Apr 2021, at 12:44 PM, Steven Hirschorn wrote:
> Thanks all for the feedback so far.
> 
> I'm happy to do a partial job (eg adding "building:use"="apartments") and leave someone else with a different use case to actually identify the addresses. The trial run I did showed that some addresses use "A/B" to distinguish the flats, others used "Ground Floor/First Floor" and without approaching each property, it's impossible to tell and it's a level of detail I'm not willing to go into. By adding building=apartments/addr:flats or building:use=apartments (most of the flats around me are conversions) I'm adding useful probably accurate data to OSM and not creating an unmanageable task for myself. If there's a way of tagging the number of flats without being drawn into the specific address of each flat, even better. Any ideas? This would, for example, allow someone to query the number of unique properties in an area, count the number of different property types, etc.
> 
> I'm avoiding any sources that aren't completely open so local council lookups are out, given a previous answer to a question I asked a week or two ago.
> 
> Incidentally, do local authorities not have any responsibility for keeping a list of addresses in their area for the purposes of issuing Council Tax demands, which they could open? Do they delegate this task to Royal Mail?
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, 1 Apr 2021 at 09:37, Mark Goodge <mark at good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> On 01/04/2021 09:04, I wrote:
>> 
>> > Unfortunately, the open UPRN database contains nothing other than the 
>> > UPRN and coordinates. If you're willing to use a non-open source then 
>> > you can look up UPRNs at https://www.findmyaddress.co.uk/ which will 
>> > give you addresses, which is helpful for identifying subdivided 
>> > properties. But, even there, it doesn't distinguish between current and 
>> > legacy UPRNs.
>> 
>> Just to add to that, if your local authority has a property search page 
>> which accepts a UPRN as an input, then that will, usually, distinguish 
>> between legacy and current UPRNs. For example, the two UPRNs on the Lidl 
>> supermarket, here:
>> 
>> https://uprn.uk/map?loc=18,52.0896854,-1.9352782
>> 
>> both have an address on Find My Address, which isn't all that helpful. 
>> But looking them up at Worcestershire County Council makes it clear 
>> which is current and which is legacy:
>> 
>> http://e-services.worcestershire.gov.uk/MyLocalArea/MyLocalAreaResults.aspx?uprn=100121280409
>> 
>> http://e-services.worcestershire.gov.uk/MyLocalArea/MyLocalAreaResults.aspx?uprn=10094178810
>> 
>> If you can find a similar lookup on your local council's website, then 
>> that will help identify legacy UPRNs.
>> 
>> Of course, this isn't open data and hence can't be used to feed directly 
>> into OSM or any other dataset that needs a compatible licence. But it is 
>> useful to highlight locations that will benefit from an on-the-ground 
>> survey, the results of which are open data.
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
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