[Talk-GB] Terraced Houses Mapping - JOSM and iD

Tue Apr 13 16:26:03 UTC 2021

Hi Jez

Thanks for the offer and some clarification.  I'm sure Rupert's intentions
are honourable given his engagement on this thread, I'm just critical of
his project management which the Micron issue exemplifies ( Why wasn't it
spotted much earlier? ).  I also think there's much to improve on
communication and engagement. There's lots to learn for us here.

Regards

Brian

On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 at 16:31, Jez Nicholson <jez.nicholson at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Brian,
>
> I've spoken to Rupert as he initially consulted with me as an OSMUK Local
> Chapter board member before bringing his idea to the list.
>
> Micron are nothing to do with him. It appears they are a mapping group
> causing problems in a number of places worldwide on OSM. Mappers from
> Micron found and used the Tasking Manager projects (plural) that Rupert had
> set up as research. Tasking Manager projects are not private - something
> that HOT may need to change.
>
> Rupert is writing a feasibility study and is not actively changing any
> data. The intention is to gain funding to organise local mapping from
> residents based on experience from Missing Maps/HOT but *not* sponsored by
> MM/HOT. This could involve some remote mapping, but not primarily.
>
> There are a lot of ideas involved, but I think you'll find that his
> intentions are entirely honourable and do involve empowering local people
> to build their own map.
>
> OSMUK Local Chapter would be happy to host a call on BigBlueButton for
> Rupert to explain his ideas in person.
>
> Regards,
>               Jez
>
> On Tue, Apr 13, 2021 at 1:44 PM Brian Prangle <bprangle at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Rupert
>>
>> Wales *projects*? You mean there's more than this one?  Who precisely
>> are Micron and how did they get involved and how come no-one knew this
>> until Sam intervened? Is Sam collaborating with you only on the cleanup or
>> has he been there from the initiation? I'm a little frustrated that
>> information seems to be dripping out slowly with each communication from
>> you. Zoom calls are fine for me any evening after 630pm , hopefully that
>> goes for others in the UK OSM community. I'd  like to see at least one
>> OSMUK Chapter Board member on the call too.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Brian
>>
>> On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 at 11:17, Rupert Allan <mail at rupertallan.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Brian,
>>>
>>> Yes, this was Sam, who is collaborating with me, who was kindly putting
>>> in some hours over the weekend to speed up the validation process. His
>>> summary was this: 'Turns out the Wales projects were subject to a deluge of
>>> untrained beginner mappers from an org called Micron (not a parter of HOT's
>>> or any other org)'.
>>>
>>> I know that this does not make it right,
>>> as it highlights the vulnerable position that Tasking Manager puts the
>>> map in. I am expecting to do more this week, after my covid vaccination
>>> this evening, and hope it doesn't put me out of action. I shall be hoping
>>> to use the time off work to do some validating.
>>>
>>> Can you advise on the best timing for a Zoom, Brian?
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Rupert
>>>
>>>
>>> UK: +44 (0)7970 540 647
>>> Skype: Reuben Molotov
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, 13 Apr 2021, 10:21 Brian Prangle, <bprangle at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Rupert
>>>>
>>>> Any update on your plan to fix things in Merthyr? A lot has been
>>>> achieved but I don't know whether it's at your instigation or not. There
>>>> are still some buildings to clean up in a few areas ( I was adding solar
>>>> panels just now as part of our ongoing UK project). How's setting up the
>>>> zoom meeting?  There's still some unease about this project going forward
>>>> andyou need to build some bridges with the UK OSM community
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> Brian
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, 11 Apr 2021 at 10:43, Brian Prangle <bprangle at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Rupert
>>>>>
>>>>> Things are beginning to clarify thankyou.
>>>>> I think you might proceed faster and stronger if you stop relying on
>>>>> bodies like missing maps etc and engage the local uk osm community more
>>>>> centrally.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also think you need more urgency to fix the buildings mess. More
>>>>> than intentions are needed. Fixing what's there is going to be slow and
>>>>> demotivating so I think it best to delete everything and start afresh. If
>>>>> potential collaborators with osm look at this data they are going to run a
>>>>> mile and tell everyone else likewise.
>>>>>
>>>>> No more explanations and justifications please : plan and execute fast
>>>>> - like this week
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>>
>>>>> Brian
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 11 Apr 2021, 09:37 Rupert Allan, <mail at rupertallan.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear Brian, Andy and group,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please forgive me for an early morning address mis-type. The last
>>>>>> email was addressed to both Andy and Brian.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So Brian, thanks for the suggestions in the email above. It is obviously
>>>>>> paramount to get buildings mapped to the important standards needed for OSM
>>>>>> here in the UK, given the strong history of high-standard maps in the UK.
>>>>>> OSM standards need to match, better, or provide different
>>>>>> information than those of the OS.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for your suggestions for for trying to ensure this. Having
>>>>>> 'taken down' the tasks', the intention is to edit and correct the data, and
>>>>>> if this cannot wait until local people are trainied enough to do it, I
>>>>>> shall ask the Missing Maps group to undertake it with very strict rules and
>>>>>> your guidances.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *The ultimate dream scenario... *is that this project would arrange
>>>>>> for members of the OSM UK group to be part of/lead the remote mapping
>>>>>> trainings (- in situ, lockdown permitting). This could then help train
>>>>>> local mappers to the right standard. *But is this feasible? *If it
>>>>>> were, then any input from MapUganda (and all of these involvements are
>>>>>> currently hypothetical) could then focus on field survey training.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To partially answer the 'analytical map' outcomes questions noted
>>>>>> from Frederik, here
>>>>>> <https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1djgOB4yD-eExeSDy4Hu8XiKslG_slMiWguupGyqS4Bc/edit#gid=0>
>>>>>> and here
>>>>>> <https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nrcNYbF7lAI3yM1zbZqYPanDaipxtI9uUa3GhYsLLs4/edit#gid=0>
>>>>>> are some worksheets showing resource allocation maps generated in
>>>>>> the South Sudan/DRC refugee crisis. These remain a work in progress, and
>>>>>> were designed to show stakeholders what is possible, and not meant to claim
>>>>>> how watertight our data/presentation is, except in the fact that local
>>>>>> participants are supremely confident that every single public amenity was
>>>>>> covered. Something resembling these (but curated under UK guidance),
>>>>>> generated in the OpenData environment, may constitute one of the outcomes
>>>>>> for South Wales. These were showcased here
>>>>>> <https://www.hotosm.org/updates/2018-04-14_some_powerful_map_outputs_from_the_ugandan_refugee_response>
>>>>>> (please forgive the initial 'emotive' tone of the blog - e.g. the call for
>>>>>> readers to contribute. Prospective contribution enquiries would then be
>>>>>> strategically managed by HOT).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Zoom call sounds great, Brian. Happy to fit in with whenever's best
>>>>>> for you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I shall have a busy week ahead, with some personal commitments too,
>>>>>> starting this morning, so please also forgive me if email response slows
>>>>>> down a little.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rupert
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Apr 11, 2021 at 9:02 AM Rupert Allan <mail at rupertallan.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear Andy,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (and thanks, Andy, for pointing out that my resonse seemed vague.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Answers:
>>>>>>> 'the precise nature of this project like  its timescale and
>>>>>>> deliverables and the role of the various stakeholders?'
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Deliverables:
>>>>>>> Feasibility Study.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Timeframe: Taking 3-6 weeks, tbc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Secondary/conditional potential deliverables:
>>>>>>> Attempt to provide schematic maps for broad analysis of social and
>>>>>>> geographic resource allocation .
>>>>>>> Provide the opportunity for local people to have a say in how they
>>>>>>> are treated/own their own data.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Timeframe: tbc
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Possible Stakeholder roles (tbc):
>>>>>>> Cwm Taf Morgannwg - integrate OSM GIS into existing covid response.
>>>>>>> Sponsor/commission the project.
>>>>>>> OSM UK -? Tbc
>>>>>>> OSM Cymraeg - General support, advice, and ? Tbc
>>>>>>> Local Community - Collaborate, learn, participate
>>>>>>> MapUganda - field training and OSM analytics assistance/skills. Tbc
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My role
>>>>>>> - writing feasibility study, concept originator and potential
>>>>>>> project coordinator (tbc)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 'a voluntary project or a funded project'
>>>>>>> - Voluntary so far.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 'when you start talking about recruiting local mappers.'
>>>>>>> - I am hoping to get the project commissioned, but initially a
>>>>>>> feasibility study is requested. I would hope to be paid for that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Zoom call if it involves UK OSM Chapter sounds like  good idea
>>>>>>> - Yes, it certainly does. When is a good time for you?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Rupert
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> UK: +44 (0)7970 540 647
>>>>>>> Skype: Reuben Molotov
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, 9 Apr 2021, 23:06 Andy Townsend, <ajt1047 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Rupert,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't think you've really answered Brian's questions there.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 09/04/2021 22:38, Rupert Allan wrote:
>>>>>>>> > ...
>>>>>>>> > I am the initiator of the project, as I was the one asked to look
>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>> > whether the humanitarian community mapping methodology used in
>>>>>>>> Ebola
>>>>>>>> > vulnerability mapping, for example, could be applied to assist in
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> > COVID risk/response here in the UK.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Asked by whom?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Andy
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Talk-GB mailing list
>>>>>>>> Talk-GB at openstreetmap.org
>>>>>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rupert Allan:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Spatial Intervention Design, Research
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In Print:  'Motorcycle-Mapping: Modalities of United Statelessness' in *Mapping Crisis: Participation, Datafication and Humanitarianism in the Age of Digital Mapping* <https://www.sas.ac.uk/publications/mapping-crisis> (University of London/Chicago Press, Human Rights Consortium <https://www.sas.ac.uk/projects-and-initiatives/human-rights-consortium>)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> UK: +44 (0)7970 540 647
>>>>>> Skype: Reuben Molotov
>>>>>> MARINE CALL SIGN: 24VN3 <https://www.facebook.com/rupertanddorry/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> FRGS, Missing Maps/HOT OSM Voting Member
>>>>>> web <http://rupertallan.com> | twitter <https://twitter.com/rupert_allan> | instagram <https://www.instagram.com/rupert_allan/> | linkedin <https://www.linkedin.com/in/rupert-allan-03840a4/> | imdb <https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1117305/?ref_=nv_sr_1?ref_=nv_sr_1>
>>>>>>
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