[Talk-GB] building=maisonette was:Retagging building=flats

Mon Apr 19 21:05:58 UTC 2021

Yes, I'd agree that's exactly what it looks like, presumably you can
confirm using UPRNs.

Thanks also to Ian, I was not familiar with the 3 storey arrangement in
anything other than social housing. This does support using the
building=maisonette for these. Many blocks in St Anns in Nottingham are
like this, with 2 ground floor maisonettes accessed down a stair & the
others accessed by doors across a bridge on the first floor, and perhaps 3
or 4 units of 6 arranged in a terrace. An alternative scheme is 3 storey
units of 3 grouped as 6 or 7.

For all types of maisonettes I've mapped the address to the front door. My
original comment was about keeping the building type, but I think the
address bit really only offers one reasonable solution.

Jerry

PS. A long time since I was in Currie, so afraid I have little recollection
of the housing.

On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 at 20:47, Donald Noble <drnoble at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Thanks Jerry,
>
> Hopefully this link to Bing street side of some buildings in Broomhouse,
> west Edinburgh will work, on the right is a block of 4 which I think are 2
> up 2 down, and on the left a block of 6 which I think the ends are 2 up 2
> down, but the middle 2 are 2 floor terraced.
>
> https://www.bing.com/maps?osid=b4ecb25a-c359-4f53-89f5-1fdd1b823729&cp=55.925167~-3.279545&lvl=15.301565&dir=152.66075&pi=-1.748&style=x&mo=z.0&v=2&sV=2&form=S00027
>
> Unfortunately bing street side isn’t available in Currie where I know
> these buildings are like this, as I used to live in one :)
>
> Cheers, Donald
>
> On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 at 19:53, SK53 <sk53.osm at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Donald,
>>
>> I think Edinburgh is covered by Bing Streetside. If you could provide a
>> suitable link I'll have a look.
>>
>> Typical maisonettes in London:
>>
>> * Between the wars street in Ruislip,
>> <https://www.bing.com/maps?&ty=18&q=Meadway%20Gardens%2C%20Ruislip%2C%20England&lf=&mb=51.584893~-0.435768~51.576666~-0.413452&ppois=51.5812_-0.429931_Meadway%20Gardens%2C%20Eastcote%20%26%20East%20Ruislip%2C%20Hillingdon%2C%20Ruislip%20HA4%207_QWRkcmVzcy9NRFBfNTQ3MTc4OTQ1NDc0ODI4NzAwOT9hbHRRdWVyeT1hbCU1RU1lYWR3YXkrR2FyZGVucyU3Q2xjJTVFSGlsbGluZ2RvbiU3Q3BjJTVFSEE0KzclN0NhMSU1RUVuZ2xhbmQlN0NhMiU1RUxvbmRvbiU3Q2NyJTVFVW5pdGVkK0tpbmdkb20lN0Npc28lNUVHQg%3D%3D~&dt=1618858800000&tt=Meadway%20Gardens%2C%20Eastcote%20%26%20East%20Ruislip%2C%20Hillingdon%2C%20Ruislip%20HA4%207&tsts0=%2526ty%253D18%2526q%253DMeadway%252520Gardens%25252C%252520Ruislip%25252C%252520England%2526lf%253D%2526mb%253D51.584893~-0.435768~51.576666~-0.413452%2526ppois%253D51.5812_-0.429931_Meadway%252520Gardens%25252C%252520Eastcote%252520%252526%252520East%252520Ruislip%25252C%252520Hillingdon%25252C%252520Ruislip%252520HA4%2525207_QWRkcmVzcy9NRFBfNTQ3MTc4OTQ1NDc0ODI4NzAwOT9hbHRRdWVyeT1hbCU1RU1lYWR3YXkrR2FyZGVucyU3Q2xjJTVFSGlsbGluZ2RvbiU3Q3BjJTVFSEE0KzclN0NhMSU1RUVuZ2xhbmQlN0NhMiU1RUxvbmRvbiU3Q2NyJTVFVW5pdGVkK0tpbmdkb20lN0Npc28lNUVHQg%25253D%25253D~%2526dt%253D1618858800000&tstt0=Meadway%20Gardens%2C%20Eastcote%20%26%20East%20Ruislip%2C%20Hillingdon%2C%20Ruislip%20HA4%207&cp=51.581241~-0.42989&lvl=19&dir=52.50422&pi=7.010592&style=x&mo=z.0&ftst=0&ftics=False&v=2&sV=2&form=S00027>
>> 4 maisonettes in each building, with distinct separate entrances: A lot of
>> interwar buildings go to pretty extreme lengths to look like ordinary
>> houses.
>> * Edwardian one in Ealing
>> <https://www.bing.com/maps?osid=30ab0c6f-23a0-4838-aca3-3bd8782f59c3&cp=51.494302~-0.307495&lvl=19&dir=164.4736&pi=4.5280776&style=x&mo=z.1.73&v=2&sV=2&form=S00027>.
>> IIRC most of the buildings on the S side of Darwin Road are maisonettes of
>> a similar age, but contrary to my memory many don't have 2 obvious front
>> doors.This one does so makes it's distinctiveness apparent. These were
>> purpose built. I think there are many more in the Ealing area, e.g.,
>> streets N of West Ealing station. Another area where they are common is
>> Bounds Green near the N. Circular.
>> * Typical post-war ones (via Geograph
>> <https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/687186>)
>>
>> In addition some blocks of larger council (social) housing are described
>> as maisonettes; these usually are on 3 or more levels and some residences
>> are duplex. Again they are purpose built, and there are no shared
>> entrances. I'd probably have tended to call them flats myself, but they do
>> broadly fit the bill. In the Greater Manchester area there are many blocks
>> of 4 or 6 maisonettes built as social housing : mainly spotted because of
>> the odd layout of solar panels on some, then validated via Streetside and
>> thereafter readily noticed from aerial images.
>>
>> The house ones tend to be slightly taller and deeper than an equivalent
>> house, not by a huge amount, but enough once one has one's eye in.
>>
>> Similar concepts exist in the US (e.g., Chicago
>> <https://www.bing.com/maps?osid=530d1288-c610-47a9-b3c0-31c26ad2d68f&cp=41.938852~-87.66461&lvl=19&dir=200.82544&pi=11.609175&style=x&mo=z.0&imgid=e02e7bb1-be37-4f45-bf4b-d26ab1922ffb&v=2&sV=2&form=S00027>),
>> but they are nearly always referred to condos and both parts of the
>> building will be duplex. Condo is actually the form of ownership rather
>> than a building type, but I'd be hesitant about imposing something which I
>> believe is distinctly British thing elsewhere.
>>
>> Jerry
>>
>> On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 at 18:56, Donald Noble <drnoble at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Good evening all,
>>>
>>> The previous post below got me wondering about how best to tag houses
>>> which are effectively 2 flats one above the other, but each with their
>>> separate front door.
>>>
>>> If I understand correctly, this could be tagged as a maisonette, but
>>> not sure if this was what Jerry was referring to, and whether it is a
>>> useful detail to add?
>>>
>>> There are quite a lot of these in Edinburgh, and I have just been
>>> mapping them with building=house with 2 nodes for the addresses at
>>> the front doors. For some, I have added level=1 where it is obvious from an
>>> outside stair.
>>>
>>> Any thoughts on what is best practice, as I couldn't find any
>>> documentation of this on the wiki.
>>>
>>> Cheers, Donald
>>>
>>> On Sun, 4 Apr 2021 at 14:08, SK53 <sk53.osm at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yes, apartments is well-established as the most widespread tag. The one
>>>> type of property where re-tagging to apartments should be avoided is
>>>> building=maisonette. These are quite distinct, and, possibly, peculiarly
>>>> British, and should retain the tag (even if it doesn't help with
>>>> StreetComplete).
>>>>
>>>> In the London area it may be of interest to subtag mansion blocks of
>>>> flats (e.g., the massive group around Queen's Tennis Club in West
>>>> Kensington) as these are another distinct building form.
>>>>
>>>> Jerry
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, 4 Apr 2021 at 10:13, Mat Attlee <mattattlee at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I've noticed that around Hackney in London there are quite a few
>>>>> buildings tagged as "flats" eg
>>>>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/197881319
>>>>>
>>>>> These don't show up in StreetComplete and having raised it with them
>>>>> they suggested mass retagging them to building=apartments
>>>>> https://github.com/streetcomplete/StreetComplete/issues/272
>>>>>
>>>>> What are people's thoughts on this?
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Talk-GB mailing list
>>>>> Talk-GB at openstreetmap.org
>>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Donald Noble
>>> http://drnoble.co.uk - http://flickr.com/photos/drnoble
>>>
>> --
> Donald Noble
> http://drnoble.co.uk - http://flickr.com/photos/drnoble
>
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