[Talk-GB] OSM UK address project: tags

[Nick]

Hi Mark

Yes that is an interesting example. I looked up the USRN and found 
14610160 (https://www.findmystreet.co.uk/map?usrn=14610160) - not sure 
if that is the correct one but it is simply listed as 'SEDGE FEN, 
LAKENHEATH'.

What is interesting is that Royal Mail seems to list the property 
address as '43 Sedge Fen BRANDON IP27 9LG' whereas West Suffolk Council 
list it as 'Flacks Farm 43 Sedge Fen, Lakenheath'. This sort of 
discrepancy is not unusual and is part of the massive problem that lack 
of sharing as open data is the result.

I guess the ideal is to ensure that OSM does not add to the confusion, 
which is why it would be great if we could link to other recognised data 
(e.g. UPRN and USRN) on the OSM map.

Cheers

Nick

On 22/12/2021 11:13, Mark Goodge wrote:
>
>
> On 22/12/2021 10:28, Colin Smale wrote:
>
>> What's so bad about adopting the RM model? Given the huge levels of 
>> "tradition" in UK addressing (particularly in rural areas) they had a 
>> big challenge to come up with a data model that would accommodate all 
>> the quirks while providing an efficient way of uniquely identifying a 
>> delivery point for post. We are not going to a better job than they 
>> have done. Are we just being stubborn?
>
> I agree. The format of a postal address is the same no matter whether 
> the item is delivered by Royal Mail, Amazon or DPD. When people think 
> of an address, what they are thinking of is what you'd put on a 
> letter. We shouldn't be trying to reinvent the wheel here.
>
> That said, because of the way that OSM's data is structured (unlike 
> the PAF, it isn't a flat file), we aren't tied to RM's structure in 
> cases where it's clear that our tags can give more useful information. 
> A specific example of that is a house I used to live in, which has a 
> postal address of
>
> Flacks Farm
> 43 Sedge Fen
> Lakenheath
> Brandon
> Suffolk
> IP27 9LG
>
> Written like that, it looks like a standard postal address. The quirk 
> is that Sedge Fen is not a street - instead, it's a rural hamlet 
> comprising several unnamed roads. So addr:street would be the wrong 
> tag here. The question is, which would be correct? Personally, I'd tag 
> it like this:
>
> addr:housename "Flacks Farm"
> addr:housenumber "43"
> addr:hamlet "Sedge Fen"
> addr:village "Lakenheath"
> addr:post_town "Brandon"
> addr:county "Suffolk"
> addr:postcode "IP27 9lG"
>
> That has the advantage of both being literally correct, from a 
> geographic perspective, as well as converting easily into a written 
> address if you simply take it in hierarchical order (in particular, 
> knowing that hamlet < village < post town). The disadvantage is that 
> it uses tags which aren't that well understood, and often conflict 
> with common addressing conventions. An alternative, which also works 
> from an addressing perspective, would be:
>
> addr:housename "Flacks Farm"
> addr:housenumber "43"
> addr:place "Sedge Fen"
> addr:town "Lakenheath"
> addr:post_town "Brandon"
> addr:county "Suffolk"
> addr:postcode "IP27 9lG"
>
> That uses "town" for Lakenheath, which, despite being administratively 
> incorrect (Lakenheath is a village, not a town) is consistent with 
> common addressing usage of having "town" for the settlement name 
> irrespective of legal identity, and "place" for the hamlet, which is 
> consistent with the wiki and, it seems common usage in OSM. And, 
> again, this resolves easily to a written address just by following the 
> hierarchy.
>
> The key to both of these, though, is distinguishing addr:town from 
> addr:post_town. And I'm a little surprised that the latter seems to be 
> so infrequently used in OSM (only 11 objects, according to a taginfo 
> search). I think this is something that really does need to be 
> prominent in the wiki, with a clear explanation of the difference and 
> mappers encouraged to use addr:post_town correctly. Essentially, 
> addr:town should be used for the settlement that the object is 
> actually in (or administratively part of, for rural areas that are 
> part of the curtilage of a settlement), while addr:post_town should be 
> used (and only used) where the postal address includes a specified 
> post town that is different to the name of that settlement.
>
> Mark
>
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