[Talk-GB] OSM leaving the UK?

Michael Collinson mike at ayeltd.biz
Fri Jul 2 14:05:14 UTC 2021


The legal advice given to us when I was License Working Group chair was 
that you cannae protect yourself to the max everywhere with a 
one-size-fits-all license, so don't. Protect yourself in the key 
commercial markets of large corporations. So that is what we did - we 
paid attention to the US and EU.  In that respect, it makes sense to 
shift domicile to the EU as the UK is now a small market in relative terms.

Mike

On 2021-07-02 11:29, Edward Bainton wrote:
> > Database right ... the EU and the UK ... do recognise it. However, 
> neither jurisdiction recognises foreign database right, meaning that 
> EU databases are not protected in the UK and UK databases are not 
> protected in the EU.
>
> So, as someone working on this over on Talk-OSMF, have I misunderstood 
> that there would be greater protection for the database if it moved to 
> the EU?
>
> On Thu, 1 Jul 2021 at 14:54, Simon Poole <simon at poole.ch 
> <mailto:simon at poole.ch>> wrote:
>
>
>     Am 01.07.2021 um 14:27 schrieb Tony Shield:
>     > OSM leaving UK domicile for an EU domicile (any of 27
>     jurisdictions)
>     > and ignoring any non-EU domicile appears to be reactionary with no
>     > firm understanding of the global nature of OSM and its database and
>     > associated IP. No good reason has been stated. UK exiting the EU
>     is a
>     > reason for thought and reflection - not knee-jerk reactions.
>
>     Moving out of the UK has been on the tables as an option since at
>     least
>     2012 (the main reason why I have always opposed making it even more
>     difficult by having an asset lock in the articles), there are many
>     reasons (which you would know about if you had actually read the mail
>     from Guillaume), Brexit related changes are just some of them. And
>     given
>     that the issue has been discussed with and in the board in depth over
>     the last 5 years  it is anything but a knee-jerk reaction.
>
>     Simon
>
>
>     >
>     > Departing for a new domicile needs to have have lots of benefits
>     and
>     > and no significant loss of benefit. These benefits need to be
>     defined
>     > and assessed correctly using an agreed process - not just personal
>     > opinion.
>     >
>     > Changing domicile should be considered to all countries - not
>     just EU
>     > as that is presumptive that only the EU is of value in the
>     world. To
>     > make that presumption will alienate OSM members and make domicile
>     > changes an opportunity for undue influence.
>     >
>     > As Mark points out database rights are not standardised
>     throughout the
>     > world and a very detailed impact analysis is required as the very
>     > minimum.
>     >
>     > Staying put has to be the default  position in the absence of
>     clearly
>     > positive benefits of change.
>     >
>     > Regards
>     >
>     > Tony Shield - TonyS999
>     >
>     > On 01/07/2021 09:23, Mark Goodge wrote:
>     >>
>     >>
>     >> On 01/07/2021 02:13, Jbrsk B wrote:
>     >>> The email thread on OSMF-Talk on which that article is based
>     can be
>     >>> read in the archive, starting here:
>     >>>
>     https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/osmf-talk/2021-June/007860.html
>     <https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/osmf-talk/2021-June/007860.html>
>     >>>
>     <https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/osmf-talk/2021-June/007860.html
>     <https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/osmf-talk/2021-June/007860.html>>
>
>     >>>
>     >>>
>     >>>  And if like me you don't know what "sui generis" means for the
>     >>> database legislation, my interpretation from a quick search is
>     >>> "special."
>     >>
>     >> "Sui generis" is a Latin phrase meaning "in a class of its
>     own". In
>     >> the legal context, it usually means something that is treated as a
>     >> standalone entity rather than being part of a wider category along
>     >> with other, similar things. It's a common concept in planning
>     law in
>     >> the UK, whereby developments that don't fit into the standard
>     A1, B2,
>     >> etc classes are described as sui generis.
>     >>
>     >> As far as intellectual property is concerned, database rights are
>     >> consider sui generis because they do not fall into any of the
>     general
>     >> classes of IP, such as copyright, trade marks, patents and
>     design right.
>     >>
>     >> Unlike the main forms of IP, which are globally applicable and,
>     as a
>     >> result of various treaties, broadly interoperable, sui generis
>     rights
>     >> tend to be very much jurisdiction specific and, even where they
>     exist
>     >> in multiple jurisdictions, are not necessarily interoperable
>     between
>     >> them - something protected under a sui generis right in one
>     place may
>     >> not be protected under the equivalent legislation elsewhere.
>     >>
>     >> Database right is one such. It's not particularly widely
>     protected at
>     >> all, but the EU and the UK are two of the jurisdictions that do
>     >> recognise it. However, neither jurisdiction recognises foreign
>     >> database right, meaning that EU databases are not protected in
>     the UK
>     >> and UK databases are not protected in the EU.
>     >>
>     >> Mark
>     >>
>     >> _______________________________________________
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>     >
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