[Talk-GB] London Overground / TfL Rail as part of National Rail

Michael Tsang miklcct at gmail.com
Sat Nov 20 10:57:46 UTC 2021

On Saturday, 20 November 2021 09:43:02 GMT 10992 wrote:
> Here are further thoughts:
> Network Rail ≠ National Rail ≈ ATOC/RDG (at least at the moment, it might
> all need tagging when Great British Railways or whatever they're calling it
> comes into being).
> Merseyrail, London Overground and TfL Rail all are part of the National Rail
> ticketing system. See e.g.
> https://www.brfares.com/!fares?orig=TEO&dest=SBU.  This is distinct from
> running on Network Rail tracks.  HS1 is not Network Rail, I don't believe,
> and I don't think the new sections of TfLR are NetR.
> Anyway, the operator of LO is Arriva Rail London.
> Network Rail would be the operator of the tracks rather than the routes.
> Perhaps brand could fit somewhere?

So I believe
operator="Arriva Rail London"
network="National Rail"
brand="London Overground"

can work?

Also, it seems there isn't consistent mapping of National Rail train routes as 
well, for example, the Thameslink routes are mapped with the ref shown on the 
route map but some Southern services are mapped using the route code from the 
old BR era, some services are mapped using the 3-digit NRT number as ref as 
well, and some have just the two-letter code as the ref.

If we apply the same tagging principle to the above, we can tag the Southern 
routes as
operator="Govia Thameslink Railway"
network="National Rail"


I believe that all National Rail routes should be mapped as network="National 
Rail" to signify that they are really one network, unlike the "lie" where TfL 
always tells us making us think that Overground / TfL Rail are different things 
to National Rail. Practically, especially in terms of ticketing and passenger 
rights purposes, Overground / TfL Rail are no different than other TOCs (you 
need a National Rail ticket, but not an Underground / DLR ticket, to travel on 
the Overground), although tube fare is charged rather than TOC fares.

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