[Talk-GB] Golfing tags seem to conflict with walking tags

[SK53]

I'm in general agreement with Mike here, paths on golf courses for golfers
are very different from any other things tagged with highway.

They don't form a network, largely being for the purpose of guiding golfers
from one green to the next tee and to avoid wear on the grass and conflict
with golfers on other holes. The same applies to golf buggy ways which also
stop and start. I can't find the original discussions about golf=* tags on
the wiki, but from memory these paths were intended to be tagged with the
golf tag only. In any case they do need to be treated differently from
typical footway, path, track objects, and not just for golf specific data
consumption.(for instance, editors will highlight highways being close to
each other, I think we want to avoid the sequence 1) remove golf tag; 2)
someone joins up the paths; 3) irate golf club secretary writes to OSMF
about people traipsing across the course).

If they are to be mapped with highway tags then access=customers is the
most sensible value. I've long been of the view that "designated" means so
many different things it is rarely useful as a value (at least in the UK).
There are still a few golf clubs which adhere to their private membership
status quite rigidly, but most like the revenue brought in by paying
visitors (and grants too, which often come with provisions about equality
which has led to some revision of "male only" club memberships). Many clubs
still have dress codes which restrict "customers".

Others have pointed out that golf courses may be on common land (Epsom
Common), and, at least in Scotland, people do take walks along the edges of
golf courses. There are quite well-developed paths along the dunes on the
seaward side of the course at Machrihanis,h for instance, and I recollect
the then head of Scottish National Heritage looking for orchids in the
rough there (shamefully, I have to admit to playing golf at the time).

>From personal experience finding the path of rights of way on golf courses
can be quite hard, even with decent signage (this one
<https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/268250987> for example). We have around
2,300 PRoW in England crossing or impinging on golf courses (overpass query
<https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1dte>, please dont all run it!).

Jerry

On Fri, 26 Nov 2021 at 10:11, Michael Collinson <mike at ayeltd.biz> wrote:

> Yes, foot=customer at best.
>
> Never seen the point in the game myself but my wife plays, so I map a
> lot of golf courses and any paths. I decided to not use a highway tag at
> all but use a completely experimental golf=path tag. Paths for golfers
> are very specific and often disconnected from any routable network or
> indeed each other. As I say, purely my personal experiment but if I can
> persuade any of you, great.
>
> Mike
>
> On 2021-11-26 20:39, Philip Barnes wrote:
> > IMHO designated should only be used on legal rights of way.
> >
> > Mark Twain said everything one needs to know about golf.
> >
> > I guess the question is why are golf course mappers adding a tag
> indcating a right of way?
> >
> > Broken wiki page or broken editor presets perhaps?
> >
> > Phil (trigpoint)
> >
> > On Friday, 26 November 2021, Jon Pennycook wrote:
> >> Hello.
> >>
> >> Golfing tags for paths seem to conflict with those used for walking.
> e.g.
> >> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:golf%3Dpath
> >>
> >> I have noticed that a number of golf courses have paths tagged as
> >> highway=path, foot=designated.  From my point of view, this means that
> any
> >> pedestrian can use that path, but practically many of those paths are
> >> private and not open to the general public (so if they were not paths on
> >> golf courses, they would be tagged as foot=private or foot=permit).
> >>
> >> If these are connected with roads or rights of way, journey planners
> might
> >> send pedestrians through golf courses, which may not be desirable.
> Perhaps
> >> we need a way to tag a designated route for pedestrians that isn't open
> to
> >> the general public?
> >>
> >> Jon
> >>
>
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