[Talk-GB] Potentially incompatible edits in West London

[Jez Nicholson]

Hi Andy,

I feel for you. It is a difficult task, and whatever the DWG decides is
fine by me.

Anyone trying to actually enforce copyright infringement due to someone
being influenced by what they've seen, rather than what they've directly
copied/traced, is going to be hard-pressed to get a result. But, we must
continue to maintain our high standards.

- Jez


On Mon, 18 Apr 2022, 12:46 Andy Townsend, <ajt1047 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello - especially to mappers in London.  Andy from OSM's Data Working
> Group here.
>
> There's been a suggestion that mapper that has been very active in West
> London* https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Mikhail1412 has been using
> various sources that aren't compatible with OSM. Attempts to contact the
> mapper via
> http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-discussion-comments?uid=2055614 have
> mostly been unsuccessful, although a local mapper has managed to get
> replies to some private messages (which unfortunately do also suggest
> that they're using incompatible sources).  It has been suggested that
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Mik1412 is another account by the
> same person.
>
> Attempts by the DWG to get the mapper to interact with the community
> have failed: https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Mikhail1412/blocks ,
> hence a "block until they engage with us" message at
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user_blocks/5919 .
>
> I had hoped that we'd be able to revert and redact certain classes of
> data only (see e.g. comment on
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/113072980 ).  However, the
> problematic changes include geometric changes too - it has been said
> that the latest change to https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/144667839
> (see the top-right corner of
> https://overpass-api.de/achavi/?changeset=113007152 ) isn't possible
> based on imagery available to OSM because of tree cover.  That edit is
> unlikely to be based on survey as the mapper concerned apparently hasn't
> been in London since late 2019 (due to the pandemic etc.).  Some other
> changes seem to match Google Street View and not a more recent survey.
>
> It therefore looks like we'll have to revert (and likely redact) most or
> all of this mapper's changes since the beginning of 2020, unless we get
> a reason not to from a reply to
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user_blocks/5919 .  I'm sending this
> message for a few reasons:
>
> * to encourage mappers in West London to comment on this user's
> changesets, both where the data appears not to be based on sources
> available to OSM but also where it can be validated by e.g. survey.  I
> don't expect that you'll get a reply, but those comments will be
> extremely useful to us and to everyone else in the area.
>
> * to give everyone a chance to tell me if I've got anything wrong
> (please reply on this list if that's the case).
>
> * to give everyone a bit of a warning of a potential "hole" appearing in
> the data in West London in a few days time.
>
> I won't start any wide-scale revert for a week or so to give the mapper
> concerned yet another chance to reply.  I have already reverted (and
> redacted) some changes in
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/115296538 where there were
> specific reports about individual pieces of data.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Andy
>
> * more recently the same mapper has been active in France - I've also
> asked them for the sources of their edits there.
>
>
>
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