[Talk-GB] Dodgy bicycle tagging, was Re: help with reverting changeset (all cycleways in a particular area deleted)

Tony Shield tonyosm9 at gmail.com
Tue Apr 19 13:16:55 UTC 2022


Hi Chris

Could highway=footway be better than highway=path in this instance

Tony

On 19/04/2022 13:52, Chris Hodges wrote:
>
> I agree completely, and Heavy Metal Handcyclist was one of the 
> accessibility advocates I was thinking of, along with riders whose 
> bikes give them mobility while being harder to recognise as mobility 
> aids (e.g. https://twitter.com/tricyclemayor ). Then there's the 
> gentleman who parked his e-bike outside Lidl, unfolded his walking 
> stick, and went off to do his shopping as I was loading my bike - he 
> wouldn't be doing much pushing.
>
>
> I'm an able-bodied bike tourist so my difficulties are mere 
> irritations compared to the trouble some people have (pretty big 
> irritations when I have to lift it over a gate because the gap it's 
> supposed to be pushed through is too tiny and it weighs 40kg laden - 
> but irritations nonetheless)
>
> BTW I'm wary of deleting anything myself, let alone deleting to 
> replace with another way of recording.
>
>
> I had routing issues on Sunday where Komoot had used OSM data to route 
> us up something labelled "public footpath" and not loking much like it 
> was designed to be ridden 
> (https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/119859473 is my attempt to 
> fix).  I think
>
> On 19/04/2022 13:00, Jon Pennycook wrote:
>> Hello Chris.
>>
>> This is one reason why I disagree with people who delete cycleways 
>> and replace with a generic cycleway=track on the road. The data on 
>> dropped kerbs, inaccessible barriers, and dismount sections are lost. 
>> The late Heavy Metal Handcyclist https://twitter.com/CrippledCyclist 
>> used to post on Twitter on how they would get councils to remove such 
>> barriers (their cycle was their mobility aid).
>>
>> From my point of view, having my pannier bags full of shopping or 
>> stuff for my holiday means I can't just dismount and push my bike 
>> over a raised kerb, and getting round narrow gaps in barriers is 
>> impossible. Similarly, people tagging non-cyclable ways as 
>> bicycle=yes makes journey planning problematic.
>>
>> Jon
>>
>> On Tue, 19 Apr 2022, 12:51 Chris Hodges, <chris at c-hodges.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>     The editor in this case is clearly wrong, and this is why we have
>>     the "dismount" tag, which renderers are free to use/stuff up as
>>     they see fit.
>>
>>
>>     But the main problem here isn't really the user.  It's the
>>     planners who designate cycle routes that can't be cycled.  Not
>>     all cyclists can dismount and push. Reading up on accessible
>>     cycling recently has been eye-opening
>>
>>     On 19/04/2022 11:12, Jon Pennycook via Talk-GB wrote:
>>>     > But I have noticed that a small number of people on OSM don't
>>>     seem to like cycle infra (or maybe they don't understand it).
>>>
>>>     And some people like to put bicycle=yes on things that are
>>>     convenient for them to cycle on, even when they are clearly
>>>     private or have Cyclists Dismount signs.
>>>
>>>     For example, footways with Cyclists Dismount signs, formerly
>>>     tagged bicycle=dismount, and members of two LCNs and an NCN:-
>>>
>>>     > Hi the signs are present, but it is a route for cyclists, by
>>>     customising the drop down you exclude the section from 3rd party
>>>     systems that use the data. Hence changed to Yes for cycles, as
>>>     it is regardless of whether ridden or pushed.
>>>
>>>     On Mon, 18 Apr 2022, 07:28 Jon Pennycook,
>>>     <jpennycook at bcs.org.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>         Morning.
>>>
>>>         I think those are two different people - Nathan_A_RF now
>>>         tends to specialise in edits around Southampton (I think
>>>         they used some controversial sources for a wider area until
>>>         last Autumn, according to their Block page), and AR_Mapper
>>>         specialises in Bracknell and New York.
>>>
>>>         But I have noticed that a small number of people on OSM
>>>         don't seem to like cycle infra (or maybe they don't
>>>         understand it).
>>>
>>>         Jon
>>>
>>>         On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 at 05:41, Robert Skedgell
>>>         <rob at hubris.org.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>             The same user added an entirely spurious bicycle=no to a
>>>             bus gate in
>>>             Woodham Ferrers. This made cycle routers take the scenic
>>>             route and
>>>             turned 300m of shared footway along Ferrers Road into a
>>>             dead end. There
>>>             was no source for the "corrections" in this edit. How
>>>             odd that cycle
>>>             infra seems to be the common feature in their
>>>             problematic edits...
>>>
>>>             https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/93778124
>>>
>>>             On 17/04/2022 18:51, Jon Pennycook via Talk-GB wrote:
>>>             > Thanks Phil - that's very helpful.
>>>             >
>>>             > I don't understand what caused them to do this.  It
>>>             turns out they are
>>>             > not new - they just have a low edit count and that
>>>             I've spoken to them
>>>             > before about cycleways in Bracknell:-
>>>             > https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/92601276
>>>             > <https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/92601276>
>>>             >
>>>             > Jon
>>>             >
>>>             > On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 at 18:47, Philip Barnes
>>>             <phil at trigpoint.me.uk
>>>             > <mailto:phil at trigpoint.me.uk>> wrote:
>>>             >
>>>             >     I believe I have reverted
>>>             >     it, https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/119825773
>>>             >     <https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/119825773>
>>>             >
>>>             >     Phil (trigpoint)
>>>             >
>>>             >     On Sun, 2022-04-17 at 18:10 +0100, Jon Pennycook
>>>             via Talk-GB wrote:
>>>             >      > Hello.
>>>             >      >
>>>             >      > A relatively new mapper just deleted a whole
>>>             load of cycleways in
>>>             >      > Bracknell that were correctly mapped in
>>>             >      > https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/119816211
>>>             >     <https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/119816211>
>>>             >      > I wasn't able to use http://revert.osmz.ru/
>>>             >     <http://revert.osmz.ru/> to revert the change:-
>>>             >      > Status: too big
>>>             >      > Error: Would not revert 644 changes
>>>             >      >
>>>             >      > Could someone assist with the reversion,
>>>             please?  Or should I contact
>>>             >      > the DWG for assistance?
>>>             >      >
>>>             >      > Jon Pennycook
>>>             >      > _______________________________________________
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>>>             <mailto:Talk-GB at openstreetmap.org>
>>>             >      > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
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>>>             >
>>>             >
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