[Talk-GB] UK cycle route: NCN National Route 17 (21895) in Kent

[Gregory Williams]

I've subsequently conversed with a Sustrans Volunteer Ranger that I
know in the area and have cleared up the relation further. It should be
looking better now.

Gregory

On Fri, 2022-01-14 at 08:28 +0000, Gregory Williams wrote:
> I put some of that NCR17 mapping in. NCR17 has changed alignment over
> time, but has also had issues with bad signing.
> 
> I've removed some bits that I know are now wrong. I suspect that the
> portion in west Maidstone around Poplar Grove to Queen's Road is also
> wrong, but I think that there have been odd signs here that
> incorrectly
> suggest that it is NCR17. I seem to recall Maidstone having some
> signs
> that confused "17" and "(17)". I.e. is *on* vs. *leads to* NCR17.
> 
> I've copied Maidstone Cycle Forum, as they should be know their patch
> better than me! Perhaps they may be able to advise about the Medway
> portion too?
> 
> Gregory
> 
> On Thu, 2022-01-13 at 13:28 +0000, Chris Hodges wrote:
> > I'm not local so can't comment on that specific route, but it is 
> > plausible for a few reasons:
> > 
> > - Some routes really do start and stop in silly places because land
> > access negotiations have stalled. Sometimes in multiple places. 
> > NCN33 
> > in Somerset is like that, with work finally beginning on connecting
> > it 
> > to NCN26 and Clevedon after over 10 years of proposals and talk.
> > 
> > - Sustrans have been removing branding on (and support for) routes
> > that 
> > don't fit their rather arbitrary standards.  This can leave gaps -
> > or
> > sections that have NCN numbers but aren't put of the NCN (according
> > to 
> > their own map https://explore.osmaps.com/ncn hosted by OS which I
> > used 
> > to use as part of my route planning but don't trust)
> > 
> > - That same map doesn't always reflect reality as it ever happened,
> > nor 
> > does it match the signs, which also don't match reality. We can and
> > do 
> > make a better job of it in places.
> > 
> > For example  NCN 45 into Bridgnorth from the north is correctly
> > mapped 
> > on OSM (following the signs with a little interpolation where
> > they're
> > missing) 
> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/search?query=bridgnorth#map=14/52.5333/-2.4153&layers=C
> >  
> > but some odd sections that don't join up with anything are also
> > mapped.  
> > They match Sustrans's own mapping, except that OSM is more sensible
> > and 
> > doesn't show a route going across a school playing field, near but
> > not 
> > following a public footpath. Some signs exist on those disconnected
> > sections.  I think they had NCN route numbers on them when I was
> > there, 
> > but I've also seen route numbers covered up
> > 
> > 
> > A glance at Sustrans's map of the Maidstone area, without detailed 
> > inspection, suggests that much of what looks wrong could be right
> > or
> > at 
> > least official, but not all the disconnected sections match that
> > map.  
> > But I wouldn't trust it to be right, as well as the obvious
> > licensing
> > block on the data, i.e. even if it was allowed, copying the
> > "official" 
> > data would increase the errors
> > 
> > 
> > Chris
> > 
> > 
> > On 13/01/2022 11:24, Andy Townsend wrote:
> > > This seems a bit odd:
> > > 
> > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/21895
> > > 
> > > shows a couple of disconnected sections around Maidstone and an
> > > odd
> > > spur towards Chatham.
> > > 
> > > https://osm.mapki.com/history/relation/21895
> > > 
> > > suggests that at least one of the Maidstone "extras" has been
> > > there
> > > since 2008, suggesting that it's not a recent faux pas.
> > > 
> > > I suspect that given the number of avid cyclists on this list
> > > that 
> > > someone will be immediately able to say "actually that's wrong"
> > > or 
> > > "actually, that's correct because..."
> > > 
> > > Best Regards,
> > > 
> > > Andy
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > 
> > 
> > 
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