[Talk-GB] addr:place cleanup process

[tonyosm9 at gmail.com]

Hi
There are concerns about which tags to use when replacing addr:place. addr:suburb may be appropriate in many cases however several people including myself have argued for the definition of a GB&NI address to be addr:street or addr:place + addr:suburb or addr:hamlet or addr:village + addr:city (postal town). It follows that automatic conversion of addr:place to addr:suburb is wrong.
In the area in which I live I have corrected many addr:place to addr:suburb or addr:hamlet or addr:village as appropriate based on my local knowledge.
I originally was using addr:place as that is what is offered in JOSM - so presets may need to be better defined or a new GB&NI preset created for addresses.


On 21/01/2022 07:03, Tom Crocker <tomcrockermail at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Rob
> 
> Given there have been no objections so far I changed a few on the list - 
> all of which seemed uncontroversial and would be easy to revert if there 
> were strong objections. I realised that, perhaps unsurprisingly, there 
> are clusters where a mapper has taken this approach, including some of 
> our most active and longstanding mappers. I was thinking it would be 
> courteous as well as helpful for future cleanup to drop them a note and 
> explain the problem and proposed solution. Personally, if they were 
> unhappy with addr:suburb and wanted to suggest addr:village, 
> addr:hamlet, etc on a case by case basis, I would go with that as it 
> would resolve the addr:place with addr:street ambiguity, be 
> understandable by anyone who wanted to, and usually that middle bit is 
> unnecessary, especially when combined with a postcode.
> 
> What do you think?
> 
> Tom
> 
> On Thu, 13 Jan 2022 at 23:57, Rob Nickerson <rob.j.nickerson at gmail.com 
> <mailto:rob.j.nickerson at gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>     Hi all,
> 
>     As we learnt the other week, the addr:place tag has often been
>     incorrectly used here in the UK. The tag addr:place is meant to be
>     used when the address does _not_ reference a street (tagged with
>     addr:street) at all. This is frequently seen in small villages in
>     continental Europe which often don't have any street names at all.
> 
>     In the UK most cases of addr:place and addr:street being used
>     together are incorrect and are cases where addr:suburb should have
>     been used instead of addr:place. You can browse the Nominatim QA
>     <https://nominatim.org/qa/#map=8.06/53.26/-0.64&layer=addr_place_and_street>
>     to find examples and help clean these up.
> 
>     To help with this clean up effort I have tested an approach in JOSM
>     that some might consider as captured by the Automated Edits code of
>     conduct. I therefore wanted to share this process before proceeding.
> 
>     Step 1:
>     Identify a potentially incorrect use of the addr:place tag. To do
>     this I am looking at the list of values used on TagInfo GB and
>     checking if any of these are villages/towns. If they are then there
>     is a high chance that the addr:place tag is incorrect.
>     https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/keys/addr%3Aplace#values
>     <https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/keys/addr%3Aplace#values>
> 
>     Step 2:
>     Open the data in JOSM using an overpass query. An example query I am
>     using to download the data is:
> 
>     [out:xml][timeout:90];
>     {{geocodeArea:England}}->.searchArea;
>     (
>        nwr["addr:place"="Eccleston"](area.searchArea);
>     );
>     (._;>;);
>     out meta;
> 
>     Step 3:
>     Inspect the data in JOSM paying particular attention to other addr:*
>     tags. To do this I start by doing a Ctrl+F and search for e.g.
>     "addr:place"="Eccleston". This selects all the features with this
>     tag. I can then see the full range of addr:* tags used on these
>     features. High use of addr:street reiterates the incorrect use of
>     addr:place. I can also see if the addr:suburb tag has been used on
>     any features -> if it has then I go investigate this separately. I
>     also investigate uses of all other addr tags except
>     housenumber/name, unit, flats and street.
> 
>     Step 4
>     Change addr:place to add:suburb. I get to this stage quicker if step
>     3 does not identify any conflicting addr:* tags (e.g. if the only
>     other addr tags are housenumber/name and street). The more addr:*
>     tags there are the more I look into individual OSM features before
>     making this change.
> 
>     As always, if in doubt then I don't proceed.
> 
>     How do you feel about this sort of approach? With proper time spent
>     carefully looking at the other addr tags that have been used, then I
>     believe it is a low risk edit.
> 
>     P.S. Feel free to check out the results of a couple trials I made.
>     e.g.
>     https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/116122672#map=14/53.6500/-2.7281
>     <https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/116122672#map=14/53.6500/-2.7281>
>     I'll pause on making more as I realise I should get the discussion
>     going first.
> 
>     Thank you,
>     *Rob*
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> 
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