[Talk-GB] Rossendale Way

[Mark Goodge]

On 24/01/2022 15:13, Andy Townsend wrote:
> On 24/01/2022 12:05, Martin Wynne wrote:

>> And what about folks who don't use such sites, but just use the 
>> OpenStreeetMap? I keep telling friends how useful it is for walking, 
>> with details such as stiles, benches and bus stops which are not shown 
>> on OS maps.
>>
> Presumably "the OpenStreetMap" here is the "standard" tiles maintained 
> at https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto ?  If so, please 
> don't send people there if you want them to see hiking route information 
> because that style has decided not to show that information.

openstreetmap.org is where Google, Bing, DuckDuckGo etc will send people 
when they search for "open streetmap". Expecting non-nerds to use other 
URLs isn't realistic.

> A good option is https://hiking.waymarkedtrails.org/ (which has lots of 
> walker-friendly functions, download GPX file, etc.). Another option that 
> shows "walker friendly" stuff like public footpath info and route 
> relations is https://map.atownsend.org.uk (which I look after).  I'm 
> sure there are others.

Ideally, openstreetmap.org would have a "Walking map" layer which shows 
things like rights of way and other relevant data. That it does not is, 
at the moment, a significant weakness.

As a user of OpenStreetmap, I use openstreetmap.org because the tiles 
render faster there, I only need to have one URL bookmarked (or set as 
an icon on my phone) and it has useful search and navigation features. 
As a street map (that is, primarily a road map), the bog-standard OSM 
is, genuinely, better than anything else that's freely available on the 
web - it's much better than Google maps, for example. But the one thing 
it doesn't do at all well is display crucial walking information such as 
rights of way. For that, I use OS, because OS is the only source that 
has it.

Unfortunately, walking doesn't seem to be important to the people who 
look after openstreetmap.org. As well as the standard layer, it has two 
different cycling map layers, a transport map that appears to be mostly 
public transport, a layer called "ÖPNVKarte" which also appears to be 
mostly about public transport, and a layer named "Humanitarian" which 
seems, at first glance, to be basically just the standard map with a 
different style. So you've got two functions (public transport and 
cycling) duplicated, nothing for walkers, and no real explanation of 
what the different layers are.

 From a usability perspective, that's pretty awful, and that is, in my 
experience of recommending OSM to non-geeky users, one of the biggest 
obstacles to wider adoption. It's a particular obstacle to people who 
walk in the open countryside, where right of way information is 
absolutely fundamental and needs to be visible on screen without needing 
to query individual features to view otherwise hidden tag values.

Mark