[Talk-GB] Rossendale Way

[Mark Goodge]

On 24/01/2022 18:07, Andy Townsend wrote:
> On 24/01/2022 17:05, Mark Goodge wrote:
>>
>> Ideally, openstreetmap.org would have a "Walking map" layer which 
>> shows things like rights of way and other relevant data. That it does 
>> not is, at the moment, a significant weakness.
> 
> Agreed on the "walking map" idea, but I don't think that an 
> England-and-Wales map style would make sense to be added globally 
> because things like "public footpaths" don't even apply to Scotland, 
> never mind the rest of the world.

OS manages it, up to a point. It's consistent enough that users seem to 
cope with the different legalities.

>> As a user of OpenStreetmap, I use openstreetmap.org because the tiles 
>> render faster there, I only need to have one URL bookmarked (or set as 
>> an icon on my phone) and it has useful search and navigation features. 
>> As a street map (that is, primarily a road map), the bog-standard OSM 
>> is, genuinely, better than anything else that's freely available on 
>> the web - it's much better than Google maps, for example. But the one 
>> thing it doesn't do at all well is display crucial walking information 
>> such as rights of way. For that, I use OS, because OS is the only 
>> source that has it.
> 
> As an aside I can think at least three other sites that have reasonable 
> rights-of-way coverage - Bing Maps showing OS Landranger and Explorer 
> data, map.atownsend.org.uk (which as up to date as OSM is) and the 
> overlay https://osm.cycle.travel/rights_of_way/ which shows what is 
> available from local authorities as OGL and works over any e.g. Leaflet 
> map.

Bing's OS layer is nice on the desktop, but they've deliberately 
crippled it so it won't work on mobile unless you fake the UA. And the 
OS layer isn't included in the Bing app. But, of course, mobile is where 
a walking map is going to be most useful.

The problem with overlays is that they don't always sit well with the 
underlying map - sometimes, an overlay can, well, overlay important 
information, such as a label or icon, and sometimes here can be a colour 
or styling clash. It's generally better, IMO, if the information is part 
of the underlying style rather than added on top of it.

> In the absence of support for regional layers at osm.org I suspect that 
> any "England and Wales rights of way map" isn't going to be available as 
> a global map style there, but that doesn't mean that it can't be 
> available somewhere else, and people can't advertise its existence in 
> other internet forums.
> 
> In terms of functionality, what do you believe is required, and would 
> you be willing to help create it?

What I'd like, to begin with, is a UK style that follows generally 
accepted UK mapping conventions (eg, roads having colours that reflect 
signage, and having a distinction between motorways and dual 
carriageways rather than lumping them all into "grade separated"). If 
that could show right of way information as well that would be great, 
but if not then an alternate style which does would be my next option.

> The financial running cost per month of any such site isn't a huge 
> amount*, and nor is server maintenance time** - it's people taking the 
> time to define what _they_ think is needed and then implement it 
> themselves that is missing.

The cost isn't the issue, a least to begin with (I'm not sure how well 
it scales under load, and what the implications would be for that). I 
have looked at running my own OSM tileserver, and from a sysadmin 
perspective, there's nothing prohibitive about that. But the styling is 
another issue; I've had a look at OSM Carto and, frankly, it makes my 
head hurt even trying to comprehend it. The Switch2OSM documentation 
itself isn't particularly complimentary about Carto, describing it as a 
compromise and complicated. What would be really nice is if there was a 
"simplified Carto", that beginners like myself could take as a starting 
point and then customise, rather than trying to alter someone else's style.
> * as an example, map.atownsend.org.uk costs me < £20 per month, so if 
> you split the monthly running cost between a few people it's less than 
> the price of a beer at a monthly OSM meetup.

What hardware (or VM) spec is that running on?

There was some talk on this list a while back about creating a UK style. 
But that seems to have gone quiet. I'd be interested in getting involved 
if enough other people wanted to resurrect it.

Mark