[Talk-ht] [activation hotosm] Hurricane Matthew response : Imagery/UAV coordination and support to local Haitian UAV capacities
FredM
frmoine at gmail.com
Dim 9 Oct 04:07:26 UTC 2016
Ok we will talk later, we will focus now on Grand Anse /Jeremy for
damage assessment.
This department was in the eye of the storm
And then other priority. All the best FredM
In Port Au Prince for a couple of day it will easier to cross OSM work.
On 09/10/2016 05:39, Dale Kunce wrote:
> Great job Fred, glad that you've managed to get things going on your own.
> When if you have the imagery available please feel free to let us know
> and we can make sure it's available on OpenAerialMap.
>
> Stay safe and we wish you the best.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 8, 2016 at 8:34 PM, FredM <frmoine at gmail.com
> <mailto:frmoine at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Oups,
>
> Didn't read all your message. I have seen my name but I don't have
> time for that.
>
> Could you stop to use it as I have no time to cross check what you
> said. Fred can talk for Fred : )
>
> Just came back from an assessment in Jeremie for the gouvernment.
> We have huge work to do. So I am right now with the CNIGS and
> civil protection. In the field we flew drone for planification (
> Warehouse, fix the port, damage assessment, etc...)
>
> Let me know if you have more UAV resource, For now we have 2 ebee
> and 3 quadecopter. + Satellite imagery.
>
> Drone imagery is useful, we are using it in our NGO to promote
> technology and use it for local community. Not for the business or
> the storytelling.
>
> Only for operational purpose,... far away from the "Humanitarian
> circus" or something else.
>
> All the best FredM
>
>
> On 09/10/2016 01:58, Dale Kunce wrote:
>> Hey everyone,
>> First thanks to everyone that has contributed to the base mapping
>> thus far. Many humanitarian groups including the Red Cross,
>> Canadian Military, and the UN. I would much rather be mapping
>> than responding to the copious emails but I wanted to try and end
>> the discussion so we can get back to mapping.
>>
>> There has been a lot of chatter about UAV imagery the disaster
>> imagery charter on the list serve with many accusations flying
>> back and forth. I in my role as the activation lead for Hurricane
>> Matthew, Vice-President of HOT, and GIS Lead for the American Red
>> Cross see no value in trying to coordinate UAV use in Haiti. As
>> has been said by Blake and Cristiano both of whom know more about
>> this subject than I HOT should focus on the things we do best and
>> leave coordination of UAV use and operation to UVAviators.
>>
>> Yes HOT in 2010 was different and HOT members took extraordinary
>> measures to update the map for humanitarians. Due largely to
>> those efforts and later ones in the Philippines, West Africa,
>> Nepal, and many others HOT has become a trusted source of map
>> data immediately following a disaster. Groups like the ones
>> mentioned above have deeply integrated into their work and trust
>> HOT and its amazing volunteers to provide the map data. One of
>> the reasons HOT is trusted is because of our consistency. We
>> provide a very reliable service without causing a lot of drama
>> for the large humanitarian organizations. Throughout my time
>> responding to disasters over the last few years consistency is
>> paramount during large scale disasters.
>>
>> Comparing the airspace and subsequent use of UAVs in Tanzania,
>> during normal "blue skies" times to the crowded chaotic airspace
>> in Haiti shows a lack of basic understanding of the complexity of
>> modern humanitarian operations. If I were empowered, which I'm
>> not even close to being able to do, to simply put someone in a
>> car or on a helicopter and send them into the affected areas I
>> wouldn't. Given the reports from the area from UN, Red Cross, and
>> other NGOs I would send food, water, and shelter kits.
>>
>> HOT has declined to support Fred's effort not because we don't
>> think he has the capability but rather because HOT should and
>> must be consistent in our work. In fact, Fred flies drones
>> professionally and is currently under contract to fly a drone
>> mission in Canaan for American Red Cross prior to Hurricane
>> Matthew, hence he was in Haiti during the storm. We must
>> understand our place during large scale international disasters,
>> we must know the limits of our work, and we must not put the
>> organization at risk without ample time to study and think about
>> those risks.
>>
>> Lastly, as things have changed in disasters in the last few years
>> the need to activate the imagery disaster charter has largely
>> gone away. HOT has fantastic relationships with imagery providers
>> and governments. All are often happy to provide imagery when they
>> are capable of doing so.
>>
>> If you would like to contribute to the current mapping in Haiti
>> please grab a task at http://tasks.hotosm.org
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 8, 2016 at 3:00 PM, Cristiano Giovando
>> <cristiano.giovando at hotosm.org
>> <mailto:cristiano.giovando at hotosm.org>> wrote:
>>
>> Nicolas,
>>
>> As you well know HOT's strength is in pre-event baseline
>> mapping. We
>> have done some damage assessment and post-disaster mapping in the
>> past, but it's not easy and with controversial results.
>>
>> That being said, I'm sure other responding organizations who
>> request
>> HOT baseline mapping support may still find it useful to have
>> high
>> resolution imagery of post event areas, although limited to
>> the range
>> of a small UAV. I'm not in a position to speak for them.
>>
>> Again - and I'm asking you personally, please - please let's
>> avoid
>> confrontation, insinuations, and bring up past arguments. It's
>> absolutely not the time. If you care about Haiti and HOT,
>> please try
>> to engage with this community with a constructive, positive
>> and humble
>> approach. Long emails take effort and thinking, which now
>> would be
>> much better spent in actually doing (mapping?).
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Cristiano
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 8, 2016 at 11:55 AM, nicolas chavent
>> <nicolas.chavent at gmail.com
>> <mailto:nicolas.chavent at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> > Hi Blake,
>> >
>> > Yes Fred and the Haitian dronists on the ground have skills
>> and extensive
>> > experience but little resources to keep up their work; this
>> did not prevent
>> > them from doing what they are good at. This can limit the
>> span of their
>> > action at a time where humanitarian actors need local
>> capacities to generate
>> > post disaster UAV imagery as well as satellite imagery to
>> carry out post
>> > disaster needs assessment. Support to their work can span
>> from small
>> > logistics support (rides in UNHAS, helis, plane and cars).
>> This is quite
>> > common to get such support in any sudden onset disaster
>> responses when
>> > GIS/UAV resources (leading to high impact for IM and
>> decision making)
>> > already undersized are rare, too rare.
>> >
>> > When HOT started its first field missions, we were exactly
>> in the same
>> > situation as Fred. Skilled individuals (less experimented
>> though) with
>> > adequate equipment, but with little operational resources.
>> We did good.
>> > Without the above mentioned forms of support, though our
>> impact would have
>> > been limited and the course of action for OMS in Haiti and
>> in other
>> > countries different.
>> >
>> > With the above in mind, it's weird to read that the
>> president of HOT US Inc
>> > stating that the only HOT US Inc support for Fred and this
>> collective of
>> > local Haitian dronists is only a well known list of UAV
>> groups and a pointer
>> > to UN OCHA. That's of no help.
>> >
>> > UAV are used in Tanzania by HOT US Inc in Development and
>> Disaster Risk
>> > Reduction (DRR) contexts [1]. Thanks to multi years of UAV
>> activities in
>> > Haiti, this country is no longer a terra incognita when it
>> comes to drones
>> > and there is no such thing as "UAV missions in disaster
>> zones with
>> > notoriously complicated airspaces" but an area where it's
>> possible to
>> > operate and make the difference we ought to the Haitians
>> and to the Haitians
>> > mappers/dronists who acquired part of their skills via HOT
>> US Inc and OSM
>> > folks.
>> >
>> > Do we have to understand that HOT US Inc will not help with
>> simple
>> > facilitation work with partner relief organizations working
>> in Haiti, some
>> > of those orgs (ARC, MSF etc) having representatives in the
>> membership or the
>> > Board ?
>> >
>> > Given where HOT US Inc comes from and ironically in Haiti,
>> this would mean a
>> > lot in terms of the losses of our
>> operational/organizational ethos and would
>> > raise questions about the reality of support/empowerment
>> schemes to local
>> > communities or possible conflict of interest between
>> members/Board members
>> > of HOT US Inc and other organizations.
>> >
>> > Best,
>> > Nicolas
>> >
>> > [1] : https://hotosm.org/projects/tanzania
>> <https://hotosm.org/projects/tanzania>
>> >
>> > On Sat, Oct 8, 2016 at 6:42 PM, Blake Girardot
>> <bgirardot at gmail.com <mailto:bgirardot at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hi Nico,
>> >>
>> >> As you say, you and Fred have extensive experience in Hait
>> and working
>> >> with international partners in Haiti. Fred is actually on
>> the ground
>> >> in Haiti. You and he would be the best to coordinate him
>> flying
>> >> missions.
>> >>
>> >> This is not something HOT does, we do not coordinate or
>> push for UAV
>> >> missions in disaster zones with notoriously complicated
>> airspaces. We
>> >> rely on, and UAV missions need to be handled, by
>> professionals, which
>> >> you and Fred are, so I expect you should be able to handle
>> making the
>> >> proper arrangements and coordinations.
>> >>
>> >> I already suggested who to contact, UAviators, they have
>> coordinated
>> >> UAV missions in disaster zones in the past numerous times in
>> >> conjunction with UN-OCHA. That is HOT's contact, I passed
>> it on to you
>> >> already.
>> >>
>> >> This is all HOT can do, except eagerly anticipate the
>> imagery Fred's
>> >> missions generate.
>> >>
>> >> Regards,
>> >> Blake
>> >>
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>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Nicolas Chavent
>> > Projet OpenStreetMap (OSM)
>> > Projet Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team (HOT)
>> > Projet Espace OSM Francophone (EOF)
>> > Mobile (FRA): +33 (0)6 52 40 78 20
>> <tel:%2B33%20%280%296%2052%2040%2078%2020>
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>> > Email: nicolas.chavent at gmail.com
>> <mailto:nicolas.chavent at gmail.com>
>> > Skype: c_nicolas
>> > Twitter: nicolas_chavent
>> >
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Cristiano Giovando
>> Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team
>> cristiano.giovando at hotosm.org
>> <mailto:cristiano.giovando at hotosm.org>
>> http://www.hotosm.org
>>
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>> Dale Kunce
>> http://normalhabit.com
>>
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