[OSM-talk-ie] Talk-ie Digest, Vol 99, Issue 8
Ciarán Staunton
ciaran.staunton at gmail.com
Tue Aug 15 00:00:13 UTC 2017
>I don't believe the OSMF has ever said, or even remotely indicated, anything
along such lines (and any implementation of such a policy is likely to run
in to strong resistance by contributors all over OSM), a
better way to is to think of local chapters as service and support
organisations
for the national mapping community which fits in nicely with the rest of
your points which are completely OK.
Hi Simon - Perhaps it's a case of emphasis, but on the Osm wiki where it
explains "why local chapters" it explicitly says that the osmf cannot reach
to everyone who has a question or facilitate a discussion. It furthermore
goes on to describe a locally constituted body performing that role, and
other roles like managing finances, and liaising with Government. The only
thing further to that which I mentioned was managing uploads, which is a de
facto activity in most such chapter existant. The only thing I omitted that
osmf includes was that they don't insist that the chapter is affiliated to
them and can be an "independent organisation", and I certainly didn't
intend or attempt to say otherwise. Interestingly, the osmf see the
creation of a formal body as the means to enable further engagement, and I
can't see why it would do that very thing since it would allocate activity
among a wider group of people than it is currently within our informal
group.
On 14 Aug 2017 23:19, <talk-ie-request at openstreetmap.org> wrote:
> Send Talk-ie mailing list submissions to
> talk-ie at openstreetmap.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> talk-ie-request at openstreetmap.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> talk-ie-owner at openstreetmap.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Talk-ie digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Talk-ie Digest, Vol 99, Issue 7 (Ciarán Staunton)
> 2. Re: OSM Ireland chapter - reboot (Donal Hunt)
> 3. Re: OSM Ireland chapter - reboot (Tadeusz Cantwell)
> 4. Re: Talk-ie Digest, Vol 99, Issue 7 (Simon Poole)
> 5. Re: Talk-ie Digest, Vol 99, Issue 7 (Seán Lynch)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2017 16:48:06 +0100
> From: Ciarán Staunton <ciaran.staunton at gmail.com>
> To: talk-ie at openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Talk-ie Digest, Vol 99, Issue 7
> Message-ID:
> <CAA66px+xTNc0uoNcrqcxm2-daNKUhYA44udHcVX0JADj6LKOpQ@
> mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Greetings
>
> To answer Dave's last question first, *I'm in to help in whatever way
> possible*. I can attend any of the dates suggested, and I can arrange an
> appropriate venue for them to take place if that is needed. I've been
> around the process of setting up companies etc. and served as a company
> secretary before (though I can't ultimately be that for OSM).
>
> I think Martín's comment is a good concern to have. However, I believe that
> OSMF wants local chapters formally set up, composed of responsible groups
> in each country to make accountable decisions about how the maps of each
> country evolve, and to have oversight of licencing, manage upload efforts,
> interpret increasing sources of open data and organizing truly OPEN (yes I
> just shouted) meetings that are well publicised, and held in appropriate
> venues to allow lots of different map stakeholders attend. I think that you
> have hit the nail on the head in terms of the sequencing. A healthier
> sequence of informal meetings drawing in people who are interested is a
> good way to *lead in*, but the other thing is inevitable. Not everyone has
> to go forward for participating on the structure, but anyone who does would
> be accountable to everyone else.
>
> Back to what Dave said. My forty two cents on the issues set out at the top
> are:
> - Groups like this need monthly or bi-monthly networking, bi-annual speaker
> sessions and an AGM and anything else is based on energy. Mostly I think
> the informality doesn't assist the activities members have away from the
> table. I find myself teaching OSM to schools, without only two or three
> members interested in that experience. Brian gave a super talk to the
> Geneology Society about boundaries which he hasn't had a chance to do for
> us, Dave has headed off to talk to the OGP, Dermot is doing propeller stuff
> ... literally.. you get the picture. These talks should be between
> ourselves initially, with a feeling for what is then used to engage others.
> Each SOTM conference concludes that face to face engagement is key for
> success, that then goes outwards and invites new people in... each national
> group does it... Ireland has no good reason to stand outside that.
>
> - The new mapper engagement needs a schools/colleges exposure and some sort
> of recruitment plan, with a sense of how particular skills and experiences
> are constantly required to boost the community. Obviously we need to be
> present in the sector with more regular participation at IRLOGI and that
> sort of forum. There are also professional bodies for Engineers, Planners,
> and Geographers who would fling their doors open if we could supply this
> sort of engagement. There are also NGOs who would love to have a group to
> liaise with, and Point here is that we need to increase the engagement in
> these sectors, and we cant do that with the present structure in my
> opinion. These are the things that increase the numbers of contributors and
> ultimately the usefulness of the map.
>
> - Getting out of Dublin is necessary if there's demand outside Dublin. I
> think Maynooth is a good venue as a compromise for the west (don't laugh
> its pragmatic). I think you cant get a compromise for the likes of Cork
> other than to decamp down to Cork but only if there's demand. I don't think
> its unreasonable to use something easy like Meetups or Eventbrite to
> confirm attendance and ensure those who end up travelling are travelling
> with good cause, and its easy for people to cancel right up until the last
> second. That hasn't always been the case.
>
> I don't mean to sound negative here, nor pat anyone on the back.
> Considering the great work done over the years before I got involved
> there's plenty worthwhile to talk about and co-ordinate our efforts on, and
> that is befitting a proper level of organisation to support the goals
> raised. None of the things Dave mentioned are difficult to do, they just
> take a little time and consideration.
>
> Looking forward to other views.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 14, 2017 at 1:00 PM, <talk-ie-request at openstreetmap.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Send Talk-ie mailing list submissions to
> > talk-ie at openstreetmap.org
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > talk-ie-request at openstreetmap.org
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > talk-ie-owner at openstreetmap.org
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Talk-ie digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. OSM Ireland chapter - reboot (Dave Corley)
> > 2. Re: OSM Ireland chapter - reboot (Martín Ferrari)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2017 02:52:23 +0100
> > From: Dave Corley <davecorley at gmail.com>
> > To: Discussion of Open Streetmap in Ireland
> > <talk-ie at openstreetmap.org>
> > Subject: [OSM-talk-ie] OSM Ireland chapter - reboot
> > Message-ID:
> > <CAHwD_AF1yM8hFdEJeROpk4t+35-kXnWWYzy7J1cw2gxZCZJDOQ at mail.
> > gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > First, I want to apologise, this is a long email, but if you are at all
> > interested in moving OSM in Ireland to the next level, please read on and
> > give your feedback when you're done.
> >
> > Efforts to get the OSM Ireland group set up as a legal entity and
> > established as a recognised chapter have never really got out of the
> > starting blocks for us, mainly because it's an exceptionally long, boring
> > process to get it all done.
> >
> > Back when Rory gave the Townlands presentation at a Sotm or two ago, I
> > contacted everyone who took part and asked a number of questions to allow
> > for some stats to be included in the presentation. I asked a few
> questions
> > specifically around the topic of setting something up properly. If I
> recall
> > correctly, all but one were interested in joining an official OSM
> Ireland,
> > but less than half wanted to be involved in setting it up. But that ratio
> > is to be expected. If I'm honest, it was a lot higher than I originally
> > expected.
> >
> > What I would love to see is a functioning OSM Ireland body which, at an
> > absolute minimum, could do the following
> >
> > - Scheduling regular meet up's - These would have some organisation
> > around them e.g. guest speakers, break out groups, objectives etc.
> This
> > could be monthly, bi-monthly or quarterly, doesn't matter, just even
> > setting up a schedule and sticking to it would be a great achievement
> > - Work on increasing the qty of daily contributors - Some simple
> things
> > like automating messages to first time mappers, or a tool to ensure
> > every
> > new contributor's edits are reviewed for accuracy/vandalism etc.
> > Basically,
> > just setting up some structure around it to ensure we engage with new
> > folks
> > in the most efficient and effective ways possible. I see no reason
> why a
> > number of 50 a day shouldn't be achievable within an 18 month period
> if
> > this is done right.
> > - Setting up an Import strategy - There is an ever growing pool of
> open
> > data being released. To make full use of it is going to require a
> > signficant body of up-front work (selecting, categorising,
> prioritising,
> > tools and import process).
> > - Lining up other, structured, mapping tasks - For example doing a 1
> > month blitz on lane mapping, or a 3 month clean-up of errors using
> Osmi
> > or
> > keepright etc etc etc. We did this with the enormous townland mapping
> > project. Smaller scale versions, with a little work, could have a
> real,
> > lasting impact on the map
> > - Commiting to organising a State of the Map yearly. This doesn't need
> > to have a load of bells and whistles, hell, year one would likely be
> one
> > day, but it has to be possible to get a 2 day conference going within
> 2
> > years, whatever format it may take (barcamp, unconference etc).
> There's
> > enough going on now between mappers, govt, commercial and academic
> folks
> > that is easily within reach.
> > - Lastly, getting out of Dublin. I know Dublin has the biggest
> > population of mappers, but what about having the meetup in a location
> > outside of Dub once or twice a year. Or there could be a night away
> > where
> > we do a load of ground work on the basemap first, then hit the ground
> > in a
> > town and get every street name, address, business and attraction all
> in
> > one
> > day, then meet back somewhere, have a bite to eat and a few drinks.
> >
> > In my head, I'm seeing each of those things needing 2-3 people to work on
> > them, i.e. working groups, to ensure nobody gets left holding the bag and
> > to avoid burnout.
> >
> > Now, I'd like to say, all of the above is purely what *I* think OSM
> Ireland
> > should be about. Others may feel differently, and that's totally fine.
> It's
> > kind of the point of this email :)
> >
> > With all of that in mind, to get us formally set up, what I am proposing
> is
> > the following
> >
> > 1. A meeting in early Sept (the 2nd or the 9th) where we will come
> > together to hammer out a lot of the basics of setting up OSM Ireland.
> Note,
> > this will involve people coming together, agreeing on the structure and,
> > most importantly, some people agreeing to take some work e.g. research
> > whats involved in setting up a bank account, what are the legal
> > requirements, how will we manage membership, etc etc
> >
> > 2. A second meeting in early Oct where the majority of the structure is
> > locked down. Work to start on Articles of Association etc if required at
> > this point. Again, some people would need to agree to take on some tasks
> to
> > keep the process moving.
> >
> > 3. A third meeting in Nov and a fourth in Dec, to lock down any last
> > elements. At this point we would need to agree a provisional board
> > probably, to allow for paperwork to proceed for banks, govt. etc. Note,
> > this board would step down at the first general meeting of OSM Ireland
> and
> > elections would be held at that first meeting.
> >
> > 4. Jan, get all the paperwork sent to whoever
> >
> > 5. TBD, once paperwork is approved by relevant bodies, agenda for first
> > general meeting to be determined and election process to begin
> >
> > There you go. With a bit of luck, before the next round of green
> milkshakes
> > hits McDonalds, we would be a formal entity and we could start talking
> > about moving to the next stage, which would be completing the OSMF
> chapter
> > application, not to mention any other objectives we might have.
> >
> > So, who's in?
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2017 00:17:12 -0400
> > From: Martín Ferrari <tincho at tincho.org>
> > To: talk-ie at openstreetmap.org
> > Subject: Re: [OSM-talk-ie] OSM Ireland chapter - reboot
> > Message-ID: <742a4cb4-2f2c-94f3-9e97-cd796fd8aeb6 at tincho.org>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> >
> > Hi Dave,
> >
> > On 13/08/17 21:52, Dave Corley wrote:
> >
> > > What I would love to see is a functioning OSM Ireland body which, at an
> > > absolute minimum, could do the following
> > [snip]
> >
> > Excuse me for the possibly dumb question.. But why is a legal entity
> > needed to achive any of these goals? Seems to me all of that could be
> > done as an informal group... Actually, I would say that there is no
> > point in setting a formal structure unless there is an already
> > functioning group.
> >
> > My 2¢.
> >
> > --
> > Martín Ferrari (Tincho)
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Subject: Digest Footer
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Talk-ie mailing list
> > Talk-ie at openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > End of Talk-ie Digest, Vol 99, Issue 7
> > **************************************
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2017 17:13:27 +0100
> From: Donal Hunt <donal.hunt at gmail.com>
> To: Discussion of OpenStreetMap in Ireland <talk-ie at openstreetmap.org>
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk-ie] OSM Ireland chapter - reboot
> Message-ID:
> <CAF1AMMP7NzU-MwAp-beZ1qRSm4tS85BS7Q8HRCFEfk2d9qn
> 23Q at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> I'm happy to support in any way possible. I'm based down in Cork so happy
> to support activities down this way as well as nationally.
>
> Keep us looped in regarding dates, etc (happy to travel / video conference
> for any meetups).
>
> Donal
>
> On 14 Aug 2017 07:33, "Martín Ferrari" <tincho at tincho.org> wrote:
>
> > Hi Dave,
> >
> > On 13/08/17 21:52, Dave Corley wrote:
> >
> > > What I would love to see is a functioning OSM Ireland body which, at an
> > > absolute minimum, could do the following
> > [snip]
> >
> > Excuse me for the possibly dumb question.. But why is a legal entity
> > needed to achive any of these goals? Seems to me all of that could be
> > done as an informal group... Actually, I would say that there is no
> > point in setting a formal structure unless there is an already
> > functioning group.
> >
> > My 2¢.
> >
> > --
> > Martín Ferrari (Tincho)
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Talk-ie mailing list
> > Talk-ie at openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2017 21:06:39 +0100
> From: Tadeusz Cantwell <t4dc4n at gmail.com>
> To: Discussion of OpenStreetMap in Ireland <talk-ie at openstreetmap.org>
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk-ie] OSM Ireland chapter - reboot
> Message-ID:
> <CAHJTHuZaLcoAA2uq+NfJ9XUtkBvmGtykbQiAN86v33YLK+
> wHoA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Anything that reinvigorates the OSM in Ireland I am in favour of. Having an
> immediate goal of setting up formal structures seems like a good short term
> goal to reboot the informal organisation to via regular meetings and build
> from that. Other then that most of what is being discussed is new to me.
>
> Tadeusz
>
> On 14 August 2017 at 17:13, Donal Hunt <donal.hunt at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I'm happy to support in any way possible. I'm based down in Cork so happy
> > to support activities down this way as well as nationally.
> >
> > Keep us looped in regarding dates, etc (happy to travel / video
> conference
> > for any meetups).
> >
> > Donal
> >
> > On 14 Aug 2017 07:33, "Martín Ferrari" <tincho at tincho.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Dave,
> > >
> > > On 13/08/17 21:52, Dave Corley wrote:
> > >
> > > > What I would love to see is a functioning OSM Ireland body which, at
> an
> > > > absolute minimum, could do the following
> > > [snip]
> > >
> > > Excuse me for the possibly dumb question.. But why is a legal entity
> > > needed to achive any of these goals? Seems to me all of that could be
> > > done as an informal group... Actually, I would say that there is no
> > > point in setting a formal structure unless there is an already
> > > functioning group.
> > >
> > > My 2¢.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Martín Ferrari (Tincho)
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Talk-ie mailing list
> > > Talk-ie at openstreetmap.org
> > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Talk-ie mailing list
> > Talk-ie at openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2017 23:08:31 +0200
> From: Simon Poole <simon at poole.ch>
> To: talk-ie at openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Talk-ie Digest, Vol 99, Issue 7
> Message-ID: <877dbc27-c41d-f863-cf07-f49d533dee8b at poole.ch>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Am 14.08.2017 um 17:48 schrieb Ciarán Staunton:
>
> > ...
> >
> > I think Martín's comment is a good concern to have. However, I believe
> that
> > OSMF wants local chapters formally set up, composed of responsible groups
> > in each country to make accountable decisions about how the maps of each
> > country evolve,
>
> I don't believe the OSMF has ever said, or even remotely indicated,
> anything along such lines (and any implementation of such a policy is
> likely to run in to strong resistance by contributors all over OSM), a
> better way to is to think of local chapters as service and support
> organisations for the national mapping community which fits in nicely
> with the rest of your points which are completely OK.
>
> While I'm commenting on this thread: I suspect that any hopes of
> directly increasing contributor numbers by having a formal org are going
> to be disappointed (similar ideas have been aired by the UK chapter). It
> would be nice if I was proved wrong, but I don't believe that active
> recruitment really works (fsov of works).
>
> Simon
>
> PS: the mailing list is still refusing to accept signed mails.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2017 23:18:01 +0100
> From: Seán Lynch <seanlynch at umail.ucc.ie>
> To: Discussion of OpenStreetMap in Ireland <talk-ie at openstreetmap.org>
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Talk-ie Digest, Vol 99, Issue 7
> Message-ID:
> <CAMJdNpySUhUK1VBeV+EPfGEsxm5-GE-aFfYMKpZCqiNW3BRbFA at mail.
> gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Hey guys,
>
> I am also (currently) based in Cork and would love to get more involved in
> the community.
>
> I am currently only a user of OSM but with some direction and guidance I
> would like to get more involved as a contributor.
>
> Would it be possible to set up a webinar? Perhaps this could become a more
> regular thing if it hasn't been tried before?
>
> I'd love to hear some discussion about the SOTM, issues, advice, gaps, how
> to best spend time & maybe even provide some feedback. I think addressing
> is something that should try and become standardised. I raised the issue
> before about "Galway" vs "Co. Galway" vs "County Galway" or "Cork" as a
> City or a County key etc. Maybe it is easier for Postgres + Postgis wizards
> but in my experience working with key-value pairs from OSM is not very
> convenient for those of us using MySQL.
>
> For example, shameless self-plug here but if anyone is looking for a quick
> sample of Irish (or global) OSM addresses, there are over 1103 (and
> counting) reverse geocoded value addresses available from Ireland for Free,
> at a single click and to re-use for any purpose + data on 120 litter types
> @ https://openlittermap.com/maps/Ireland/ - Log in and the download option
> will become available. Data was taken from the most recent OSM version at
> the created_at timestamp. If anyone thinks this is useful, or could be more
> useful if I also included the keys too, let me know and I can make that
> happen. And feel welcome to run your own spatial analysis of litter
> relative to OSM layers eg shops, bus stations etc. If anyone makes some
> maps
> <https://openlittermap.com/maps/Ireland/County%20Cork/Cork/map> with this
> data (please do) I would love to see them. And feel welcome to submit as
> much data as you like to reveal, communicate and open up data on plastic
> pollution!:-)
>
> Cheers,
> Seán
>
>
> On 14 August 2017 at 22:08, Simon Poole <simon at poole.ch> wrote:
>
> > Am 14.08.2017 um 17:48 schrieb Ciarán Staunton:
> >
> > > ...
> > >
> > > I think Martín's comment is a good concern to have. However, I believe
> > that
> > > OSMF wants local chapters formally set up, composed of responsible
> groups
> > > in each country to make accountable decisions about how the maps of
> each
> > > country evolve,
> >
> > I don't believe the OSMF has ever said, or even remotely indicated,
> > anything along such lines (and any implementation of such a policy is
> > likely to run in to strong resistance by contributors all over OSM), a
> > better way to is to think of local chapters as service and support
> > organisations for the national mapping community which fits in nicely
> > with the rest of your points which are completely OK.
> >
> > While I'm commenting on this thread: I suspect that any hopes of
> > directly increasing contributor numbers by having a formal org are going
> > to be disappointed (similar ideas have been aired by the UK chapter). It
> > would be nice if I was proved wrong, but I don't believe that active
> > recruitment really works (fsov of works).
> >
> > Simon
> >
> > PS: the mailing list is still refusing to accept signed mails.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Talk-ie mailing list
> > Talk-ie at openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
> >
>
>
>
> --
> https://openlittermap.com @OpenLitterMap (Fb, Tw, Ig)
> M.Sc. Coastal & Marine Environments (NUIG, 2015)
> M.Sc. GIS & Remote Sensing (UCC, 2014)
> B.A. Geography & Economics (UCC, 2011)
> ie.linkedin.com/in/seanlynchgis
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> Talk-ie mailing list
> Talk-ie at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Talk-ie Digest, Vol 99, Issue 8
> **************************************
>
More information about the Talk-ie
mailing list