[OSM-talk-ie] Splitting of CIvil Parishes?

[Rory McCann]

I have mapped CPs which cross through the middle of a townland. OSM is
flexible and allows you to do that. There's nothing wrong with doing that.

Yes the PlaceNamesNI site seems to match how you've mapped it in OSM,
however maybe they are using some data model which isn't flexible and
doesn't support more complicated things, and they have a simple hack
like that. Or maybe they're wrong.

Within OSM, the "one real world thing = one OSM object" means that
you've added 3 separate CPs, one called Drummaul, one Ahoghill and a
third called "Ahoghill/Drummaul". I don't think that's correct, I think
there are only 2 CPs here.

OSM would allow you to have overlapping CPs, but I don't think that's
correct either.

I'd suggest mapping the CP as going through the middle of the townland.
Or moving the townland entirely into one or the other CP. The Memorial
Atlas map[1] implies the Drummaul border is more north than where it is
now in OSM.

[1]
http://maps.openstreetmap.ie/oocmaps.html?zoom=13&lat=54.81657&lon=-6.34503&layers=0000BFFFTFF


On 21/02/17 22:10, Stephen Roulston wrote:
> You are quite correct KDDA. “Definitive” is too strong. I too have spotted errors in it, or at least differences between it and other sources. Nonetheless, it is a work of considerable authority from sound academic sources - on such a scale it is unlikely to have avoided all errors.
> 
> I have just dug out Volume 4 of County Antrim I: the Baronies of Toome, part of the place-names of Northern Ireland series which, unfortunately, stopped appearing when the Ulster Placenames Project at Queen’s in Belfast was closed down. This particular volume is by Pat McKay. 
> 
> On p.15, it says:
> 
> “The civil parish of Drummaul (Randalstown) is situated in the barony of Toome Upper, and covers an area of 32,394 acres, of which 11,472 are in Lough Neagh (we stop at the shore, I notice) and 171 in the river Main (Census, 1851). It is bounded on the east by the parishes of Antrim, Grange of Shilnavodan and Connor, on the north by the parish of Ahoghill, on the west by parishes of Grange of Ballyscullion and Duncan and on the south by Lough Neagh. It is made up of 49 full town lands and the greater part of two other town lands - Maghereagh and Ballybollen - each of which has a small portion in the neighbouring parishes of Antrim and Ahoghill respectively.. The parish has a “detached portion’, consisting of the four townlands of Ballynacraigy, Killyfad, Portlee and Ballynaleney, which lie along the north-west shore of Lough Neagh, approximately two miles form the main section of the parish; two of them, Portlesss and Ballynaleney, are themselves divided into two parts, the “detached portion’ in each case lying a short distance to the west of the main townland”
> 
> This would seem to agree with the map as we have it. A complication is perhaps that Dr McKay was involved in both this book and in the placenamesni.org <http://placenamesni.org/> website - it might be one mistake replicated.
> 
> There seems nothing within the two problematic townlands (Ballybollen and Maghereagh) to say what bits are Drummaul and what bits are not.
> 
> It does seem to confirm the possibility of townlands having parts in different civil parishes.
> 
> Stephen_Co_Antrim
> 
> 
>> On 21 Feb 2017, at 20:34, Killyfole and District Development Association <webmaster at killyfole.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>> I have actually found a few instances where placenamesni.org is actually 
>> wrong!  Especially where there are two or more townlands of the same name, but 
>> located in different Parishes, split townlands and townlands totally 
>> encompassed in another parish.   I did try to get them to fix the data, but my 
>> phone calls fell on deaf ears it seems.
>>
>> Most of the issues in my area were easily resolved by speaking to locals and 
>> the Parish map is a brilliant source now as well.
>>
>> http://maps.openstreetmap.ie/oocmaps.html?
>> zoom=8&lat=53.55822&lon=-7.85303&layers=0000BFFFFF
>>
>> KDDA
>>
>> On Tuesday, 21 February 2017 15:16:23 GMT Stephen Roulston wrote:
>>> I think I may have mapped those. It was a while ago, and I had just started
>>> with boundaries. I remember being very confused.
>>>
>>> If you look at http://www.placenamesni.org/map.php
>>> <http://www.placenamesni.org/map.php> and zoom in to the Drummaul area, you
>>> can see that they distinguish between Ahoghill/Drummaul (Ballybollen
>>> townland), Drummaul/Antrim (just Maghereagh townland), as well as Drummaul
>>> on its own (which contains the townland of the same name and many others).
>>> Placename search for Ballybollen on the Placenamesni.org
>>> <http://placenamesni.org/> site gives the 1851 parish as Ahoghill/Drummaul
>>> as is the current parish. On this definitive site, Magherreagh is said to
>>> be, in the Additional Information, 3/4 in Drummaul par, 1/4 in Antrim par.
>>> Which 3/4, it does not seem to indicate.
>>>
>>> I know we cannot use this site information as is, but it would seem to
>>> suggest something more complicated than a simple Drummaul Parish.
>>>
>>> Stephen
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>>
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