[OSM-talk-ie] Bar v pub

[Rory McCann]

Another idea: Rather that hashing out what's a pub and what's a bar, why
not use additional tags to narrow it down? There are suggestions for
real_ale=yes/no, food=yes/no, microbrewrey=yes/no various ways to say
"they sell this type of draught beer", real_fire=yes/no.

If I see something tagged amenity=bar, real_fire=yes, food=no,
drink:beer:Guinness=draught drink:cider:Bulmers=draught tv=no
cocktails=no, then I know exactly what sort of place to expect!

On 23/06/17 09:55, Alan Grant wrote:
> Thanks all for the replies. I am inclined to agree with Rory, there seems
> to be little point in worrying too much about establishments that do not
> fall clearly into one or the other category. Either way the user of the map
> will know that they are places that serve alcohol; beyond that there is a
> wide range of individual characteristics (loud music or not? loud music at
> certain time of the week? live or recorded music? proper food served from a
> kitchen? emphasis on beer or wine or cocktails? open after midnight?
> children allowed? dress code?) that can never be fully captured by a binary
> bar/pub split.
> 
> On 22 June 2017 at 17:22, Rory McCann <rory at technomancy.org> wrote:
> 
>> Hi all,
>>
>> For the differentiating rule is based on the osm-carto style choice. Is
>> the normal drink there a pint? Then it's a pub. Is it a cocktail? Then it's
>> a bar.
>>
>> Though it's not too important. In Hiberno-English the terms are used
>> interchangibly. Perhaps in the UK with their brewery pubs and free houses
>> it's different. The vast majority of the instances in Ireland are pubs, not
>> bars (we love our pints).
>>
>> I don't think there's a clear, defined difference between bar & pub. There
>> are edge cases in Ireland (and I think UK). So maybe tell the Spanish
>> community that.
>>
>> Like many things in OSM, there are many right answers. :) We'll never get
>> anything 100%.
>>
>> Rory
>>
>>
>> On 22/06/17 14:50, Alan Grant wrote:
>>
>>> Let me start by introducing myself as I have not posted on talk-ie before.
>>> I am Irish but live abroad and generally follow the Spanish (talk-es)
>>> mailing list.
>>>
>>> There is a rather intense debate taking place at the moment on talk-es (31
>>> posts and still going) about whether a typical Spanish neighbourhood bar
>>> should be tagged as amenity=bar, pub, or cafe. Some participants seem to
>>> assume that the bar-pub distinction is clearly defined in English (and
>>> specifically in the English OSM wiki) and that the issue is how to map
>>> that
>>> distinction to Spain.
>>>
>>> I am posting here because I wondered about whether Irish mappers do in
>>> fact
>>> think this distinction is well-defined and useful. It seems to me that in
>>> Ireland at least we often use "pub" and "bar" almost interchangeably -
>>> hence pub names such as "The Harbour Bar". Looking at the wiki some of the
>>> criteria seem rather vague or of doubtful relevance - should it matter to
>>> the definition of an amenity if the building that houses it happens to be
>>> modern or purpose-built? What about the suggestion that food is normally
>>> available in pubs - I seem to remember that when I was young many pubs
>>> served little more in the way of food than packets of crisps, does that
>>> mean they were then bars but have become pubs as they diversified into
>>> serving food to the lunchtime crowd?
>>>
>>>   From taginfo the pub tag vastly outnumbers the bar tag in Ireland.
>>> Looking
>>> at places tagged as bar, many of them do not seem much different to their
>>> neighbours tagged as pubs as far as I can see.
>>>
>>> I suppose I am really asking out of curiosity rather than with any
>>> definite
>>> aim, but any thoughts would be welcome.
>>>
>>> Alan
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Talk-ie mailing list
>>> Talk-ie at openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
>>>
>>>
> _______________________________________________
> Talk-ie mailing list
> Talk-ie at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
>