[OSM-talk-ie] religion=* and denomination=*

[Colm Moore]

Hi,

Apologies to the list and Mateusz for the confusion. :) Also apologies if I step on religious toes.

> From: Mateusz Konieczny <matkoniecz at tutanota.com>
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk-ie] religion=* and denomination=*
>
> Disclaimer: I never visited Ireland
>
> 27 paź 2020, 14:41 od colmmoore72 at hotmail.com:
>
> > 3. Holy wells, mass rocks and the like. These are predominantly Roman Catholic, but possibly with pagan origins.
>
> Are they still used by pagans/new age people? For OSM purposes current usage matters, not origins.

I concur that current usage matters. I suppose I'm wondering what the other tags should be. The below seem inadequate, not least that amenity=place_of_worship + religion=christian is interpreted as a church, not an open-air location like a Mass Rock (a location where Roman Catholic mass was said when Roman Catholicism was suppressed).

name=Holy Well
natural=spring
religion=christian
denomination=roman_catholic

name=Mass Rock
amenity=place_of_worship
religion=christian
denomination=roman_catholic

> > 5. Many religious-run schools do not have the religion or denomination tagged.
>
> It is a bit tricky as at least some religious-run schools have absolutely no trace of religion in running of school, there is simply a religious owner/operator.
>
> In such cases operator:type=religious would fit better than religion tag

As mentioned in the other email, about 95% of schools are religious in ownership, management, and practice, with most of the others being interdenominational or multidenominational. As primary school children usually have one teacher all week, in practice 95%+ of primary school teachers teach religion and need certification.

> > 8. There are religion=no, religion=none and denomination=none tags. Should these tags be rationalised or otherwise tidied up?
>
> How this tags are used?

Mostly for schools and cemeteries. In some cases, I suspect their use hasn't considered all nuances, e.g. some state-owned schools also have religious patrons or representation on the school board.

>
> Huh, I though that secularization/atheisation of Ireland was quite far reaching and nearly complete. (good thing that I included that diclaimer)
>
> crucifixes in most classrooms applies also to Poland, but "school boards pray at the start of board meetings" would be likely to be considered as ridiculous.

Don't worry, many people here consider it ridiculous as well.

> AFAIK "teachers need to be certified to teach religion" applies only to teachers teaching religion here and "Religious organisations own the vast majority of schools" does not apply (mostly result of WW II damage and communist occupation).

We have the reverse problem. Our constitution was written in 1937. On the one hand, it has a republican tradition, on the other, it was co-written by a bishop. There is a right to property in the constitution that was probably designed to be anti-communist, but it just so happens to be frustrating the transfer of under-used state-assisted schools from Roman Catholic patronage to interdenominational or multidenominational patronage.

Colm

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