[OSM-talk-ie] Townlands

Donal Hunt donal.hunt at gmail.com
Fri Feb 5 17:54:23 UTC 2021


I saw an example recently which showed the use of the 'label' role (see wiki
<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:boundary> page). Might be
useful in some cases if the administrative area is an odd shape (i.e. reuse
the GNS node) rather than create a new one.

I don't know the history of the import and the discussion that occurred at
the time. Dermot provides some insight here
<https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=3212>.
Would probably make sense to make a decision and allow the community to
organically clean up any nodes where it makes sense. Could also structure
it as a project if there were individuals interested.

Donal

On Fri, 5 Feb 2021 at 16:52, Colm Moore <colmmoore72 at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Also, where a townland is mapped as both a simple node (i.e. not associate
> with a load of GNS information) and a relation, are we deleting the node?
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/5151605415#map=15/53.4067/-6.3418
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5378347#map=15/53.4067/-6.3418
>
> Thank you
>
> Colm
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can
> change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. Margaret Mead
>
> ________________________________
> From: talk-ie-request at openstreetmap.org <talk-ie-request at openstreetmap.org
> >
> Sent: 05 February 2021 12:00
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> Subject: Talk-ie Digest, Vol 141, Issue 2
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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Logainm.ie (Colm Moore)
>    2. Re: Defaced townlands (Colm Moore)
>    3. Re: Defaced townlands (Andy Townsend)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 21:25:03 +0000
> From: Colm Moore <colmmoore72 at hotmail.com>
> To: "talk-ie at openstreetmap.org" <talk-ie at openstreetmap.org>
> Subject: [OSM-talk-ie] Logainm.ie
> Message-ID:
>         <
> DB7PR07MB5130A038886C237DF7265959BDB39 at DB7PR07MB5130.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi,
>
>
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.logainm.ie%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cd9ccee07d9a34844eb3e08d8c9d00a27%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637481242647798958%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=gKIu4Iaoh0Tspr3GewUsRDYLJDPitJEej6X03gemRWY%3D&reserved=0
> has had changes in the last few weeks. If you find any problems (I've not
> found any), please drop them a line at logainm at dcu.ie
>
> Thank you
>
> Colm
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can
> change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. Margaret Mead
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 21:28:22 +0000
> From: Colm Moore <colmmoore72 at hotmail.com>
> To: "talk-ie at openstreetmap.org" <talk-ie at openstreetmap.org>
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Defaced townlands
> Message-ID:
>         <
> DB7PR07MB51301997F7C68CFB86C0CAE8BDB39 at DB7PR07MB5130.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi,
>
> Recently, I've been adding Logainm details to OSM, both streets and
> townlands. There are about 61,000 townlands, but only 51,800 Logainm
> entries on OSM, although with some of those entries being other types of
> area and highways, that means there are a lot of unreconciled townlands.
>
> >From time to time townland and other boundaries on OSM are altered, for
> whatever reason. Is there anyone doing maintenance on boundaries? I can
> identify issues, but I don't know how to fix them.
>
> What protocols have been agreed for townland names which include the ED or
> parish name, e.g. "Newlands Demesne (Tallaght Civil Parish)"?
>
> What protocols have been agreed for double-barrelled townland names, e.g.
> "Scalpwilliam or Mount Mapas" is on OSM as name="Scalpwilliam" and
> alt_name="Mount Mapas".  I'm not sure that this 9sw appropriate.
>
> Help!
>
> Thank you
>
> Colm
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> From: talk-ie-request at openstreetmap.org <talk-ie-request at openstreetmap.org
> >
> Sent: 14 March 2020 12:00
> To: talk-ie at openstreetmap.org <talk-ie at openstreetmap.org>
> Subject: Talk-ie Digest, Vol 130, Issue 7
>
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> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Defaced townlands (Colm Moore)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 22:50:57 +0000
> From: Colm Moore <colmmoore72 at hotmail.com>
> To: "talk-ie at openstreetmap.org" <talk-ie at openstreetmap.org>
> Subject: [OSM-talk-ie] Defaced townlands
> Message-ID:
>         <
> DB7PR07MB51303170C7FA9B57FA8456E3BDFA0 at DB7PR07MB5130.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi,
>
> Barberstown townland in west Dublin is missing and the "Hansfield or
> Phibblestown" and Barnhill townland boundaries are incorrect. I've started
> a map note here
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openstreetmap.org%2Fnote%2F2120283&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cd9ccee07d9a34844eb3e08d8c9d00a27%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637481242647808953%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=xHpe4EVDjRu9nHSoOAJDM9HvnMAlRLtS2mumsK6WT%2BQ%3D&reserved=0
> Could someone have a look at them?
>
> Separately, Lambay Island
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openstreetmap.org%2Frelation%2F3546834&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cd9ccee07d9a34844eb3e08d8c9d00a27%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637481242647808953%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=lpCWhTC3gUw5EXLsQ6AOG9NYgmnSMEHR4G0S%2BqDkzJY%3D&reserved=0
> and Irelands Eye
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openstreetmap.org%2Frelation%2F4603600&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cd9ccee07d9a34844eb3e08d8c9d00a27%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637481242647808953%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=B7%2FST1zba8gJCwBsmQ4UuR58iialHV0fDDHTK7zYWhA%3D&reserved=0
> need to be added to the Fingal council area and Dublin County.
>
> Is there a way to lock townlands so that only people who know about /
> appreciate townlands can't edit them?
>
> Colm
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can
> change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. Margaret Mead
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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> ------------------------------
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> End of Talk-ie Digest, Vol 130, Issue 7
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 23:26:01 +0000
> From: Andy Townsend <ajt1047 at gmail.com>
> To: talk-ie at openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Defaced townlands
> Message-ID: <e56d9b98-7d5e-9022-0378-78889e08379d at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> On 04/02/2021 21:28, Colm Moore wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Recently, I've been adding Logainm details to OSM, both streets and
> townlands. There are about 61,000 townlands, but only 51,800 Logainm
> entries on OSM, although with some of those entries being other types of
> area and highways, that means there are a lot of unreconciled townlands.
> >
> >  From time to time townland and other boundaries on OSM are altered, for
> whatever reason. Is there anyone doing maintenance on boundaries? I can
> identify issues, but I don't know how to fix them.
>
> One think that might be happening is that the things that form the edges
> of townlands might get edited (in line with imagery) and that might
> cause a problem with the area of the townland - it might not form a
> valid polygon in the database afterwards.
>
> As an example, (one that isn't broken) is Youngfield -
>
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openstreetmap.org%2Frelation%2F5987999&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cd9ccee07d9a34844eb3e08d8c9d00a27%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637481242647808953%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=SXthl65Iytf18sKS5uZXhXHPQ3HyuKzkPDh23g27y4E%3D&reserved=0
> .  As part of its
> boundary it has a bit of river and a bit of wall
>
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openstreetmap.org%2Fway%2F385238056&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cd9ccee07d9a34844eb3e08d8c9d00a27%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637481242647808953%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=51wowVeA4w72T3z%2FbPzIHUPwTuy45LhOC%2F2UkzXA9rg%3D&reserved=0
> .  If someone extends the
> wall it might make the townland not valid as a polygon; it might end up
> as a ring with a "sticky out bit".
>
> This sort of thing can happen to anything in OSM that is a relation
> composed of ways.  I wrote a diary entry about a similar problem with
> national parks in IE/GB -
>
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openstreetmap.org%2Fuser%2FSomeoneElse%2Fdiary%2F395232&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cd9ccee07d9a34844eb3e08d8c9d00a27%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637481242647808953%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=tl2mV9olrIyYHVVFKZ5ZqVwa55zRRgd3pnWVnTvQtTo%3D&reserved=0
> .  You
> could, in theory, apply the same process to townlands, but the tricky
> bit is that there are many thousands of townlands - far more than there
> are national parks in IE and GB.
>
> If the problem is accidentally broken geometry, "how to fix" is the same
> as in that diary entry though - load the relation in JOSM, validate, and
> investigate errors and warnings.  You may need to download extra data to
> resolve some of the warnings, but things such as gaps in multipolygons
> will be revealed by that process and can be fixed manually.
>
> Someone could, if they has access to a rendering database loaded with
> Irish data, also do something like I've written in that diary entry for
> "Detecting future problems" (and of course someone may be doing that
> already - I've not actually noticed any geometrically broken townlands).
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Andy
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
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