[OSM-talk-ie] Time to talk about landuse=residential

Mon Apr 4 20:53:10 UTC 2022

I see a lot of the approaches from those you listed, and I can see how they
might be justified as the "right" approach in any given location.

Regarding joining land uses directly together, I have never had an issue
with this, as to all intents and purposes, a residential plot beside an
industrial estate, or any other landuse really, is going to be directly
adjacent on the ground. Additionally in some instances I'll draw a barrier
contiguous with the area edge, say a wall or a fence - I don't know whether
this is better done by redrawing the line along the same points of the
preexisting area or by splitting the area into a multipolygon and making
the "barrier" section one part of that multipolygon. Although I would say
that the former tends to be easier to work with if changes need to be made
in future, rather than a mess of interwoven relations.

But I do draw the line (ha ha) at joining of landuses in general with roads
and streams (and therefore townlands, since these often coincide), as it
really makes unpicking very difficult,  can easily lead to inadvertent
townland changes, and also causes annoying rendering issues with features
added to the road ways, such as traffic lights and give way signs, because
they then exist both on the road way *and* the boundary of the residential
area.

I'm not keen on separate residential areas being drawn per named housing
development, because in the long run the "marked" boundary of said
development becomes pretty arbitrary in real life. In my head I suppose the
"ideal" drawing of a residential area is maybe single units of residence
(makes more sense when dwellings are detached or semidetached and the
boundaries are well demarcated) - a bit like folios on a land registry. But
it's clearly not practical as you'd never be done mapping them across
Ireland, and many areas and housing types are not so clearly demarcated, so
you'd be adding too much inaccurate data to the mix for little benefit.

So I tend to gravitate towards (where possible) directly contiguous
residential land being contained within one drawn area, stopping at any
landuse change, or sometimes natural areas such as communal grass or
forest, or when the task is too huge on urban areas, stopping at major
roads (ensuring the boundary is along the actual residential walls and not
the road way).

That's my thoughts on it!

--
Tony Furnell

On Mon, 4 Apr 2022, 12:06 , <talk-ie-request at openstreetmap.org> wrote:

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>    1. Time to talk about landuse=residential (Ciar?n Staunton)
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> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2022 14:42:21 +0100
> From: Ciar?n Staunton <ciaran.staunton at gmail.com>
> To: Discussion of OpenStreetMap in Ireland <talk-ie at openstreetmap.org>
> Subject: [OSM-talk-ie] Time to talk about landuse=residential
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> I want to say a couple of things as context, so there will be no
> misunderstandings about what I want to touch on. This conversation keeps
> nearly happening on Telegram, but might work better here.
> 1. When it comes to landuses I realise there are several types, but my eye
> is drawn to landuse=residential simply because there are a number of us
> adding/editing these using very different styles. The intention is not to
> disrespect any particular style, but hopefully to have a bit of a think
> about better and best ways to handle adding or editing a residential
> landuse.
> 2. My observations are mainly drawn from suburban North Dublin, but I have
> been mapping recently also in Tipperary, Donegal, Derry, and Kildare. But
> please note the slightly urban bias.
> 3. I have not quantified anything, but I want  to mention some examples if
> that can be tolerated.
> 4. It is not my expectation that the map will be entirely consistent nor
> inconsistent. I do imagine that we should be talking and coaching each
> other more about how to be more consistent.
>
> Some residential landuses are enormous, they are literally the whole town
> or whole village, they take in (without much nuance) half pieces of fields,
> rivers, the sea, forests and woods. They were drawn quickly I would say,
> with the intention of adding finesse at a later stage, the problem is
> nobody has added that finesse in a lot of cases.
>
> At what can literally be the heart of such residential landuses, the
> commerical centre and indusrial clusters can be incoporated without any
> relational segregation, and potentially all other little types of landuses,
> shopping and civic areas and so forth. I know there is a tolerance of
> parking and greens being "secondary" landuses within a residential landuse,
> but I also see these segregated in other countries.The towns of southern
> Kildare bear a lot of examples of this, but frankly it is ubiquitous.
>
> Taking a different approach to the above entirely and you see an effort to
> draw long, linear and jagged polygons along roadways, to join together
> ribbon developments in a single and improbable residential area, which
> obviously bears no name and stretches from Bundoran to the Fermanagh
> border.
>
> Even in urban Dublin several suburbs could be lumped together into a large
> residential landuse - see Clontarf may has eaten away what most people call
> Raheny - or there could be micro detail of mapping out individual
> developments which are simply driven by the similarity of thoroughfare name
> - see Ramleh near Clonskeagh. It goes without saying that some residential
> landuses are named, while others are not.
>
> When these areas are drawn there are even different micro approaches to how
> to create their edge. In Finglas and Ballymun someone went around and
> joined the residential landuses to each other and the centre of highways. I
> don't like this myself as any adjustment to any feature means all the other
> features could be altered in unintended ways. Add into this stew the
> joining of the residential areas to townlands, or other boundaries and
> there starts to be complicated relational problems if anyone has a mind to
> fix any of the individual elements. Literally beside those two areas in
> Glanevin there is a complete avoidance of these admixtures of connected
> nodes, with transport corridors avoided altogether, but 'internal'
> residential roads included.
>
> I'm very interested to hear what others think about this, and how we can do
> more to iron out these issues.
>
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