[Talk-it] Edit war Sardegna

Dom 4 Set 2016 00:03:23 UTC

Il 02/09/2016 20:24, Marco Ciampa ha scritto:>Ma di che stai parlando? Parli di me? Se è così ti avverto che stai>prendendo un grosso abbaglio... io sono un "newbie" di OSM, non saprei>neanche chi contattare...
Come ha detto Simone quello che ho scritto era riferito a fayor, non a te, tranquillo. fayor, che adesso, di punto in bianco, appoggia il fare modifiche "senza l'assenso della community" ed allo stesso tempo mi dà del "quasi vandalo" per, secondo lui, aver fatto ciò. Che cos'è, bispensiero? Ma tra insulti e quant'altro ormai non mi stupisco più.

 >Alla fine non sarebbe nemmeno una questione di minoranza o maggioranza, ma di semplice intelligenza e onestà intellettuale: i>nomi perfettamente e paritariamente bilingui in Italia esistono solo in Alto Adige, per cui soltanto lì è corretto inserirli nel tag name.
Tradotto: "chi non la pensa esattamente come me a riguardo di un argomento complesso del quale si discute da anni è stupido e disonesto" Ok, complimenti!

    Il Sabato 3 Settembre 2016 18:32, "ajt1047 a gmail.com" <ajt1047 a gmail.com> ha scritto:
>Seriously, it is clear that there are things still to be worked out - for example, what's the spread of Sardinian language(s) use >across the island, both in terms of use by people living there and in signage?
Hi Andy,about that, since I don't know what you already know about the argument and the discussions here, I'm posting here the first part of a summary of the whole matter that I was writing in English, just in case something like that happened and someone decided to try to close the discussion in a way that was different from a vote:

"--The situation--
Sardinian is the native language of themajority of Sardinians (1.291.000 out of 1.656.960, as we can seehere:https://portal-lem.com/images/fr/sarde/ISTAT_Langues_en_Italie.pdf). The language is recognized by both institutions like UNESCO anduniversities all around the world, where is or was taught for years(Universities of Stuttgart, Munich and Tübingen in Germany, Gironain Spain, Brno in the Czech Republic and Waseda University in Tokio,Japan). 
After decades of discrimination,Sardinian have been finally recognized as a linguistic minority byboth the Italian Republic (law 482/99) and the Autonomous Region ofSardinia (regional law n. 26, approved the 15 of October 1997)and, as the years go on, is being used more and more by publicinstitutions.
There are institutional websites inSardinian (ex: http://www.sardegnacultura.it/sar/index.html|||http://www.comune.scanodimontiferro.or.it/?theme=srd||| http://www.redentorenuoro.it/?lang=sa etc.), people can use Sardinian in any public office (and have theright, for example, to be interrogated and to have a process inSardinian, if required), there are official documents in Sardinianand the logos for the institutions are more often than not shown inboth languages (Sardinian/Italian), like we can see here:
https://regione.sardegna.it/immagini/1_240_20120705162029.gif(logo of the Autonomous Region)
https://regione.sardegna.it/(official website of the Region)
http://www.sardegnadigitallibrary.it/
http://www.sardegnaturismo.it/en/Holidays
https://imgur.com/a/SRDgA
Also, and that’s what the issue isall about, there are bilingual toponyms and traffic signs. During thedecades a lot of names have been translated and changed (sometimesvery badly) from the local languages to Italian, but the originalones are used by a lot of people, as much as the Italian ones anddepending on the person sometimes more. Recently those toponyms can be found on some trafficsigns, in particular those referring to towns, villages and cities.Those traffic signs can be found in allof the island, both together with the Italian ones:
http://www.enricolobina.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/2012-10-29-14.58.23-500x375.jpghttps://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6b/Segnaletica_bilingue_Sardegna.gifhttps://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/76/Cartello_Catalano_AHO.jpg(this one is in Catalan, from the city of L’Alguer/Alghero, but thesituation is similar if we talk about Sardinian or about other locallanguages)
and by themselves, separated even byhundreds of meters from the Italian ones (if those can be found inthe same street):
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0a/Segnaletica_bilingue_Sardegna_Siniscola.jpghttp://178.239.177.113/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Nugoro_strassenschild_sardisch.jpghttp://salimbasarda.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/cartello-posada.jpg
The situation is the same, in theirrespective areas, for all the other local languages of the island:Catalan (in L’Alguer/Alghero), Gallurese (a variant of Corsican),Sassarese and Tabarchin (a variant of Ligurian). When it comes to town and city names almost every centre has its bilingual traffic signs.

To allow OSM to express this situation,and to allow anyone travelling inside the island to use it toorientate themselves, the “name” tags were modified to have boththe names on it, and I proposed to order them by putting as first the one from thelanguage with more native speakers (since the idea, at least initially, was to have the same standard as Alto Adige/Südtirol, and that's how it works there) and adding the singular languagetags for the single names (Italian included) for a quick search. The order have been discussed later, but those discussions were always overshadowed by the ones about the possibility of having both names at all or not.
Leaving only the Italian one in the“name” tag could, in fact, risk to confuse someone that, movingfrom one place to another, would not recognize the names on thesigns, and would also remove a lot of cultural and historicalinformations and change a thing that for a lot of Sardinians could be quite important."
Ciao,Bye,Luca

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