[Talk-ko] Use of questionable imagery in Korea

[Max]

Simon, off cause you are right. I was not the one finding out about the 
vworld image usage. I am not patrolling OSM, I don't even know the tools 
how to do it. I don't feel a responsibility for Korea nor do I feel I 
can speak for OSM Korea, because it doesn't really exist. I only heard 
about it here on the list and thought a issue in the ID bugreacker is a 
good idea.

However I think this situation is a good opportunity and an experience 
to learn from. We can create the structures to make sure this can't 
happen again. Or at least raise the awareness.

I have a few thoughts. Fist let me try an asessment of the situation for 
those from outside:

1. OSM in Korea is in a quite dire state. There are only very few 
contibutors, the quality of data is low, Most of it still stems from an 
import that is very old. Village POI are usually so off that it's 
impossible to know which village has which name without local knowledge. 
Junctions are imported as lone points, often with steets missing. 
Bridges too.
The language is a mess, with "English" and Korean mixed in brakets ((and 
double brackets too)). Half-translations such as "name=새마을11교(Sae 
Village 11 Gyo)"(sic)

2. Bing Satellite imagery is not available in big parts of the country.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=16/37.1364/128.2107
Mapbox Satellite often only in B/W, cloudy covered or low-res
https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=13/38.0416/128.2093

3. Commercial Map providers like Naver and Daum on the other hand are 
extremely detailed, up to date including even streetview from bicycle 
tracks and such.

4. The OSM community is very loose to say the least. I don't think 
anyone knows someone else IRL. There is the mailinglist with some months 
of 0 emails. It consists largely of expats and most posts are in English.

---

In this situation, now we have suddenly new users contributing a lot of 
detail http://osmcha.mapbox.com/46332326/
But they are not reacting on changeset comments or direct messages, 
maybe because of a language barrier.

Here my thoughts:
1. Is it somehow possible to not scare those away, now that their 
contributions will be reverted? Is there a way to say: "Thank you for 
your contribution, unfortunately we had to delete you edits because of 
legal problems from derived maps from unlicensed satellite images. But 
we want you to stay in our community"?

2. How to address the teenagers and Pokemon Go users with a lot of time 
and turn their obsession into something that is for the common good. 
(honestly that is what OSM is for me personally: Procrastination, but 
with the added bonus of doing something for mankind, compare this to 
playing candy crush.)

3. Should we embrace those kids better? Maybe having a booth at a games 
convention where pokemon users go?

4. Should OSM Korea make an effort to become some sort of organization?
Or would that lead to more problems even? Around Daegu I noticed that a 
lot of army bases are mapped, even with their names, which are 
completely censored on any other service. South Korea government and 
authorities might not find this funny. This is a very young democracy 
with the army and secret service having a lot of power. I think i 
remember a story that Revi has made some experiences here when he was 
editing wikipedia.

my 2 1/2 ct.

m.






On 2017년 02월 24일 13:08, Simon Poole wrote:
> Just to be clear: a report to the DWG needs neither meetings, roles,
> responsibilities or a common language (well it is likely that a report
> in English will be easier to understand, but that is about it).
>
> I realize that there might be a cultural hurdle, but any OSM contributor
> can and should, if other avenues have not worked (naturally we all
> prefer if things can be fixed locally and need not be escalated), report
> use of sources that we do not have permission to use.
>
> Simon
>
>
> Am 24.02.2017 um 12:53 schrieb Max:
>> Paul Norman also has complained that nobody has contacted the DWG.
>> https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/issues/1464#issuecomment-282268051
>> I guess this is because there is no organizational structure in the
>> Korean OSM community (yet). No IRL meetings, no roles, no
>> responsiblities, maybe not even a common language. As everyone can see
>> discussions on talk-ko happen to be mainly in English, so most mombers
>> are "expats" me included, and I am even not any more in Korea.
>> my 2ct..
>>
>>
>> On 2017년 02월 23일 21:00, Simon Poole wrote:
>>> Just a couple of notes on the use of the VWorld imagery:
>>>
>>>   * when you experience use of questionable sources in a larger way,
>>>     please inform the Data Working Group (data at osmfoundation.org) and
>>>     take action without too much delay. These problems tend to get
>>>     larger, not smaller with time.
>>>   * please point out the use of  problematic sources via changeset
>>>     comments to the mappers in question and point out that they are
>>>     doing nobody a favour.
>>>   * while not speaking for the DWG, I suspect that due to the touchy
>>>     nature of this specific source we will want to redact the edits
>>>     (which removes them from history too) so likely it doesn't make
>>>     sense to revert them manually. As the changesets in question are
>>>     easy to identify this should not be a larger problem.
>>>
>>> Simon
>>>
>>
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