[Talk-ko] Use of questionable imagery in Korea

Sun Mar 5 09:13:29 UTC 2017

FYI,

공공 용어의 영어 번역 및 표기 지침 (English translation and marking instructions for
public terms) was published by 문화체육관광부 (Ministry of Culture, Sports and
Tourism).

Reference: http://www.law.go.kr/LSW/admRulLsInfoP.do?admRulSeq=2100000035680

문화재명칭 영문표기 기준 규칙 (English marking instruction of culture properties) was
published by 문화재청 (Culture Heritage Administration).

Reference: http://www.law.go.kr/admRulLsInfoP.do?admRulSeq=2100000005900

I updated instructions into Google Drive because they were saved as HWP
files. (A file-type for a commercial word processor), but I replaced then
into web pages because I found alternates

2017-03-01 16:13 GMT+09:00 Changwoo Ryu <cwryu at debian.org>:

> "한국어 (English)" form should be corrected. I thought about some
> automatic mass editing if possible.
>
>
> 2017-03-01 0:18 GMT+09:00 느림보 <nrimbo at gmail.com>:
> > I’m new comer to OSM community. I joined the community after I noticed my
> > village was not displayed on Pokémon GO. I tried to join several years
> ago,
> > but I hesitated because I couldn’t find good guidance for editing. I
> didn’t
> > want to follow non-official source of guidance like blog posts, and gave
> up
> > soon.
> >
> > At this present, I don’t understand guidance for Korean region clearly.
> I’m
> > just writing down my understanding and my rules on my profile page
> believing
> > someone will correct my mistake if she/he would see it.
> >
> > I think some complexity come from name tags. There are many name tags for
> > one Korean POI -- name, name:ko, name:en, name:ko_hanja, name:ko_rm. As
> Max
> > pointed out, some name tag has English and Korean such as "name=새마을11교
> (Sae
> > Village 11 Gyo)". I understood the usage of “한국어 (English)” came from
> > technical reason and the rule was changed “한국어” on Oct. 2014 (Source:
> > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Korea_Naming_Convention.)
> >
> > However, many POIs are remained with “한국어 (English)” without written
> > guidance (deleted and/or revised). In this reason, the first thing I did
> was
> > searching history of naming rules. I don’t know why the community left
> “한국어
> > (English)” style until now, but believe such old-styles are fixed
> > immediately and automatically. I could write a bot if the community
> allows.
> >
> > I have doubt on name:ko_rm and name:ko_hanja. Many ko_rm field was
> > transliterated mechanically from its name without concern exceptions
> defined
> > in Revised Romanization of Korean. Then how about hand over Romanization
> of
> > Korean to renderer if need? By the way, is useful for foreigners? Is
> there a
> > renderer displaying ko_rm? As a Korean, I don’t know advantage of
> managing
> > ko_rm field manually. Related this field, I saw deleting line on ko_rm
> and
> > suggestion of ko_Latn in
> > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Names#Localization page, but it isn’t
> > harmonized with other wiki pages.
> >
> > As well as, I suggest to modify ‘name:en’ to cover Revised Romanize
> > non-composite place name. Many POIs’ name:en tags have Romanize Korean
> only,
> > but it is not written as guidance. It may be arguable because strictly
> > Romanized Korean is not English. However such exception will help
> foreigners
> > rather than omitting or writing in tag:ko_rm tag.
> >
> > p.s. I used 한국어 in this discussion to represent Korean written in
> Hangeul.
> >
> >
> > 2017-02-24 23:37 GMT+09:00 Max <abonnements at revolwear.com>:
> >>
> >> Simon, off cause you are right. I was not the one finding out about the
> >> vworld image usage. I am not patrolling OSM, I don't even know the
> tools how
> >> to do it. I don't feel a responsibility for Korea nor do I feel I can
> speak
> >> for OSM Korea, because it doesn't really exist. I only heard about it
> here
> >> on the list and thought a issue in the ID bugreacker is a good idea.
> >>
> >> However I think this situation is a good opportunity and an experience
> to
> >> learn from. We can create the structures to make sure this can't happen
> >> again. Or at least raise the awareness.
> >>
> >> I have a few thoughts. Fist let me try an asessment of the situation for
> >> those from outside:
> >>
> >> 1. OSM in Korea is in a quite dire state. There are only very few
> >> contibutors, the quality of data is low, Most of it still stems from an
> >> import that is very old. Village POI are usually so off that it's
> impossible
> >> to know which village has which name without local knowledge. Junctions
> are
> >> imported as lone points, often with steets missing. Bridges too.
> >> The language is a mess, with "English" and Korean mixed in brakets ((and
> >> double brackets too)). Half-translations such as "name=새마을11교(Sae
> Village 11
> >> Gyo)"(sic)
> >>
> >> 2. Bing Satellite imagery is not available in big parts of the country.
> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=16/37.1364/128.2107
> >> Mapbox Satellite often only in B/W, cloudy covered or low-res
> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=13/38.0416/128.2093
> >>
> >> 3. Commercial Map providers like Naver and Daum on the other hand are
> >> extremely detailed, up to date including even streetview from bicycle
> tracks
> >> and such.
> >>
> >> 4. The OSM community is very loose to say the least. I don't think
> anyone
> >> knows someone else IRL. There is the mailinglist with some months of 0
> >> emails. It consists largely of expats and most posts are in English.
> >>
> >> ---
> >>
> >> In this situation, now we have suddenly new users contributing a lot of
> >> detail http://osmcha.mapbox.com/46332326/
> >> But they are not reacting on changeset comments or direct messages,
> maybe
> >> because of a language barrier.
> >>
> >> Here my thoughts:
> >> 1. Is it somehow possible to not scare those away, now that their
> >> contributions will be reverted? Is there a way to say: "Thank you for
> your
> >> contribution, unfortunately we had to delete you edits because of legal
> >> problems from derived maps from unlicensed satellite images. But we
> want you
> >> to stay in our community"?
> >>
> >> 2. How to address the teenagers and Pokemon Go users with a lot of time
> >> and turn their obsession into something that is for the common good.
> >> (honestly that is what OSM is for me personally: Procrastination, but
> with
> >> the added bonus of doing something for mankind, compare this to playing
> >> candy crush.)
> >>
> >> 3. Should we embrace those kids better? Maybe having a booth at a games
> >> convention where pokemon users go?
> >>
> >> 4. Should OSM Korea make an effort to become some sort of organization?
> >> Or would that lead to more problems even? Around Daegu I noticed that a
> >> lot of army bases are mapped, even with their names, which are
> completely
> >> censored on any other service. South Korea government and authorities
> might
> >> not find this funny. This is a very young democracy with the army and
> secret
> >> service having a lot of power. I think i remember a story that Revi has
> made
> >> some experiences here when he was editing wikipedia.
> >>
> >> my 2 1/2 ct.
> >>
> >> m.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 2017년 02월 24일 13:08, Simon Poole wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Just to be clear: a report to the DWG needs neither meetings, roles,
> >>> responsibilities or a common language (well it is likely that a report
> >>> in English will be easier to understand, but that is about it).
> >>>
> >>> I realize that there might be a cultural hurdle, but any OSM
> contributor
> >>> can and should, if other avenues have not worked (naturally we all
> >>> prefer if things can be fixed locally and need not be escalated),
> report
> >>> use of sources that we do not have permission to use.
> >>>
> >>> Simon
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Am 24.02.2017 um 12:53 schrieb Max:
> >>>>
> >>>> Paul Norman also has complained that nobody has contacted the DWG.
> >>>>
> >>>> https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/issues/1464#
> issuecomment-282268051
> >>>> I guess this is because there is no organizational structure in the
> >>>> Korean OSM community (yet). No IRL meetings, no roles, no
> >>>> responsiblities, maybe not even a common language. As everyone can see
> >>>> discussions on talk-ko happen to be mainly in English, so most mombers
> >>>> are "expats" me included, and I am even not any more in Korea.
> >>>> my 2ct..
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 2017년 02월 23일 21:00, Simon Poole wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Just a couple of notes on the use of the VWorld imagery:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>   * when you experience use of questionable sources in a larger way,
> >>>>>     please inform the Data Working Group (data at osmfoundation.org)
> and
> >>>>>     take action without too much delay. These problems tend to get
> >>>>>     larger, not smaller with time.
> >>>>>   * please point out the use of  problematic sources via changeset
> >>>>>     comments to the mappers in question and point out that they are
> >>>>>     doing nobody a favour.
> >>>>>   * while not speaking for the DWG, I suspect that due to the touchy
> >>>>>     nature of this specific source we will want to redact the edits
> >>>>>     (which removes them from history too) so likely it doesn't make
> >>>>>     sense to revert them manually. As the changesets in question are
> >>>>>     easy to identify this should not be a larger problem.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Simon
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Talk-ko mailing list
> >>>> Talk-ko at openstreetmap.org
> >>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Talk-ko mailing list
> >>> Talk-ko at openstreetmap.org
> >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Talk-ko mailing list
> >> Talk-ko at openstreetmap.org
> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Talk-ko mailing list
> > Talk-ko at openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Talk-ko mailing list
> Talk-ko at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
>
-------------- next part --------------
HTML 첨부를 없애버렸습니다...
URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-ko/attachments/20170305/552962fa/attachment-0001.html>