[Talk-ko] Fwd: MapRoulette Challenge: Korean junctions

[Max]

Hi 느림보 and thank you for joining this maproulette challenge.
I am the author of it.

The original nodes have the format
name=라라교 (Lalakyo)
name:en=Lalakyo
name:ko_rm=Lalakyo

My intention was not to lose any information which is already there. 
Upon discussion on the list, it was discouraged to do translations into 
English. On the wiki, it is discouraged to do transliterations.

So my thinking was to change as little as possible while preserving as 
much information from the original import as possible. So above example 
would become

junction=yes
name=라라사거리
name:ko=라라사거리
name:ko_rm=Lalasagori

off cause the ko_rm really is a legacy key/value, I left it there out of 
respect for those who want it there and put it there in the first place. 
I removed :en because it is in 99 % identical with ko_rm and was not 
English in the first place. ko_rm is not a requirement, but it is 
information which is already there.

I'm against putting the "English" version ther which you can find on 
Korean Street signs. In your example (the linked photo) it's 
Yeongdonggyo(Br) which is a horrible butchery of language. First of all 
there is a missing space before the parenthesis and then it is kind of 
like "Yeongdong bridge (Bridge)" On the pircture there is no translation 
or romanization for the junction (Interesting, everything else is sort 
of translated)

Anyways, since there is currently no map that uses a mechanical way to 
do the romainzations, I would say that it maks sense to give those 
legacy manually transliterated idioms a home and put them in the 
database. Not ideal, but out of respect for those who were reluctant to 
to remove the "English" from the name= in the first place and also it is 
similar to how it is in Japan and other places.

Translating to English is tricky. Is it a junction, intersection, 
crossroad or crossroads? I don't want to make this descision. Is a 시장삼고리 
a Sijang Crossroad or a Market intersection? Honestly, I think this task 
is impossible.

Max

On 2017년 03월 20일 15:38, 느림보 wrote:
> I joined MapRoulette today and found a challenge whose name is Korean
> junctions.
>
> Description of the project is below:
>
>     /Junctions and their names are very important in Korea and Japan,
>     because people will reference those (instead of the street names) to
>     describe a route or location. A junction with a name will be
>     rendered in Mapnik, but unfortunately many junctions have been
>     imported as single points close to the actual junction./
>
>
> It suggests two fixed one is related to point and the other is naming rule.
>
>     Help fix junctions mapped as points in Korea.
>
>      1. Junctions need to be the joining node of several ways, not a point.
>      2. In ID, you can just move the node to the actual intersection.
>
>     Make sure the naming is correct.
>
>     Example: OLD (wrong): |name:사동삼거리 (Sadongsamgeori)|
>
>     NEW: |name:사동삼거리|, |name:ko_rm:Sadongsamgeori| |name:ko:사동삼거리|
>
> I have some concerns related to the challenge.
>
> Many Korean junctions were imported using mp2osm, however I looks like
> there was no crosscheck after the importment. When I joined OSM
> community, I modified some junctions in my local area (Gunpo, Anyang,
> and Uiwang), and I found many POIs indicate un-named junction. (I
> justified it using street sign on the road.) -- 17 of 58 POIs were
> classified to the case and I deleted them.
>
> Second, naming rule. Discussion on the naming rule is on-going. It is
> going to have a consensus on some cases. Korean name into name / name:ko
> tag. English name into name:en tag. However discussion on other topics
> are on-going.
>
> name:ko_rm is also on discussion -- some topics are
> 1) It is transliteration of name tag. Should we manage this tag manually?
> 2) Where should we write down Romanizeed form of untranslatable name?
>     For example. "name:en : Seoul." Is it OK to write down some
> romanized form into name:en?
>
>
>>From above description, I suggest following things
> 1) Add task to check existance of the named junction.
>
> You can find name of a junction top of road sign or near the junction
> eg)
> http://pds.joins.com/news/component/htmlphoto_mmdata/201402/04/htm_2014020411231837003790.jpg
> (청담사거리)
> <http://pds.joins.com/news/component/htmlphoto_mmdata/201402/04/htm_2014020411231837003790.jpg>
>
> 2) Do not require to add name:ko_rm tag. Instead replace its severity to
> optional.
>
> I think it would be better to encourage to add English name of juctions.
> Some of road signs displays English name, in other cases it can be
> easily translatable except one arguable thing.
> There may be dis-agreements on translation of '삼거리 (3-way junction:
> junction)' or '사거리 (4-way juction: intersection)' or '오거리 (5-way
> junction: crossroads)' as description on
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Korea_Naming_Convention
> <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Korea_Naming_Convention> because
> offical english words for 삼거리, 사거리, 오거리 are junction and only
> "junction"s are shown on road sign.
>
> Nrimbo.
>
>
>
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