[talk-ph] Various

maning sambale emmanuel.sambale at gmail.com
Tue Nov 25 01:11:22 GMT 2008


Please see parallel discussion on the talk list:
http://www.nabble.com/Rendering-barangays-for-the-Philippines-td20657176.html

On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 7:43 AM, Ian Haylock <haylocki at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> But barangays are not exactly villages, which is unlike Philippine
> municipalities that are acknowledged equivalent to towns.
>
> The Place= tag is used to denote the population size of a place, not whether
> a place is actually a city, town, village etc.
>
> So someone listing all the world's "villages" would get inaccurate data.
> Besides, I personally find very little use for a list of all the world's
> villages for whatever analysis that list would be needed for, unlike say, a
> list of all cities.
>
> That was a "Hypothetical" example.
>
> A non Hypothetical example (though not country specific) would be the change
> from highway=gate to barrier=gate. Previously navigation S/W only had to
> search for highway=gate to find roads to ignore. Now it has to search for
> both, twice as much work for the same result.
>
> (Hmmm, maybe the "place=x" tags should also be accompanied with the
> "admin_level=n" tags especially if the place matches the admin_level? Seems
> like a good idea, don't you think?)
>
> Now that gets a +1 from me :-)
>
> On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 10:04 PM, Ian Haylock <haylocki at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> Sorry,
>>
>> -1 from me.
>>
>> I think using country specific tags like "barangay" will cause problems
>> with people who use the data.
>>
>> As a hypothetical example, suppose someone wanted to list all the villages
>> in the osm database. If all the different countries used a different name
>> for village, such a simple task would become a pain in the A**.
>>
>> Cheers, Ian
>>
>> --- On Mon, 24/11/08, maning sambale <emmanuel.sambale at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> From: maning sambale <emmanuel.sambale at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [talk-ph] Various
>> To: "Eugene Alvin Villar" <seav80 at gmail.com>
>> Cc: talk-ph at openstreetmap.org
>> Date: Monday, 24 November, 2008, 8:58 AM
>>
>> +1 for me.  That would be fairly easy for me to
>>  change the
>> place=village to place=barangay.  But only for the ones I added.  If
>> others would allow me to do so for them, I'll do it.
>>
>> What about the others? Any opinion on this?
>>
>> cheers,
>> maning
>>
>>
>> On 11/24/08, Eugene Alvin Villar <seav80 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Ok then. I'm all for tagging barangay center nodes with
>> place=barangay. We
>> > can just ask the renderers to place a special code to render
>>
>> place=barangay
>> > same as place=village.
>> >
>> > On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 4:29 PM, maning sambale
>> > <emmanuel.sambale at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >> Hi,
>> >>
>> >> I am sending a discussion we (me and IanHaylock) had before with Mike
>> >> Collinson (no talk-ph at that time) on tagging Barangays this in the
>> >> context of when we are planning to import the GNS data.
>>
>> >>
>> >> For your comments
>> >> =======
>> >> Thanks for all the
>>  input.  Here is a modified version of the script
>> >> with PPL mapping to village not town.  As is, it also reads the entire
>> >> rp.txt file but only outputs DCG=ADM2 POIs.  The resulting file, also
>> >> attached is exactly the same as the one you sent me but has an
>>
>> >> addition 'is_in:state=' tag.  I am very keen to get lots of
>> 'is_in'
>> >> tags into the OSM database as it will make future searching much
>> >> easier.  For example, if there is a critical
>>  mass of entries for
>>
>> >> Aurora Province spread across the province, it will be possible to
>> >> work out the approximate bounds of the province and limit searches
>> >> there.  That removes the need to have exact boundary data.
>>
>> >>
>> >> Do upload it if you think it is ready.
>> >>
>> >> On the issue of PPL = village or barangay or locality, these are my
>> >> thoughts.
>> >>
>> >> I suggest
>>  we definitely do not use 'locality', that is really
>> meant
>> >> for place names that do not coincide with any (current) population
>> >> centre.
>> >>
>> >> place=village
>> >>
>>
>> >> Plus:  Works worldwide. Minus: Not strictly valid in a Philippine
>> context.
>> >>
>> >> place=barangay
>> >>
>> >> We'd need to get the OSMarender and Mapnik guys to add a render
>>
>> rule
>> >> for this.  We could also ask for it to
>>  be added as a Map Features
>> >> value, but that is not strictly necessary. I'd guess the easiest
>> >> request would be to say, "please render this exactly the same as
>>
>> >> place=village"?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> If I was explaining what Barangay means, does this sound right? :-
>> >>
>> >> place=barangay is specifically for Philippine use, though may be
>>
>> >> applicable in other parts of the world like South America.  At
>>  an
>> >> administrative level, a Province (= a state) is divided into
>> >> muncipalities.  Each municipality is controlled by a local council and
>> >> has a mayor.  A municipality is split into barangays[1], headed by
>>
>> >> Barangay captains.  In rural areas, these equate to villages. In urban
>> >> areas, these equate to suburbs often highly distinguishable on the
>> >> basis of social class.  A rural muncipality, e.g. Donsol[2],
>>  may
>>
>> >> therefore have a town, Donsol, split into 3 or 4 barangays and then to
>> >> It is important to mark them on OSM maps because they are used
>> >> extensively in every day navigation, information, politics etc.  They
>>
>> >> almost invariable equate to an obvious population centre (unlike
>> >> European wards).  Street signs often show which barangay they are in.
>> >> Jeepneys and buses often show a barangays as
>>  destinations.
>> >>
>> >> [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barangay
>> >> [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donsol
>>
>> >> ==============
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 11/22/08, Eugene Alvin Villar <seav80 at gmail.com>
>>  wrote:
>> >> > Hi Zoren,
>> >> >
>>
>> >> > On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 6:12 PM, <sorabsuperstar at web.de>
>> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > There's no discussion yet regarding barangays. I
>>
>> prefer leaving out
>> >> >> > the "Barangay" part of the name (unless
>> it's numeric like "Barangay
>> >> >> > 30").
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I was just about to send a second mail about that, as I
>>
>> realized that
>> >> >> at
>> >> >> certain zoom levels you can hardly see the map anymore
>> because of all
>> >> the
>> >> >> Brgy. names, or hardly see certain Brgy
>>  names because of the
>> other Brgy
>> >> >> names ;).
>> >> >> I guess the Brgy concept is a special Pinoy one. This is
>>  why
>> the
>> >> renderes
>> >> >> are not designed for such a high density of area names
>>
>> (especially with
>> >> >> regard to font sizes)  . To ease this problem I highly
>> endorse Seav's
>> >> >> suggestion to omit redundant words "Barangay",
>> "Brgy."(anyway for being
>>
>> >> an
>> >> >> abbreviation), "Village",
>> "Subdivision"etc...; unless it is really part
>> >> of
>> >> >> the name as in "Barangay 30".
>> >> >> We should even make this a general national convention for
>>
>> OSM
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > Regarding this, do not be too conscious of the rendering
>> problems. Try
>> >> not
>> >> > to "fix" the data just so it would render pretty. The
>>
>> important thing
>>  is
>> >> to
>> >> > do the data right and just leave the renderers (Mapnik,
>> Osmarender,
>> >> >
>>  etc.)
>> >> to
>> >> > decide how to best present the data.
>> >> >
>> >> > Eugene / seav
>>
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> |---------|----------------------------------------------------------|
>>
>> >> | __.-._  |"Ohhh. Great warrior. Wars not make one great."
>> -Yoda     |
>> >> | '-._"7' |"Freedom is still the most radical idea
>> of all" -N.Branden|
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>>
>>   |
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>> >> | _)_/L I http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ |
>>
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>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>  --
>> > http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> |---------|----------------------------------------------------------|
>> | __.-._  |"Ohhh. Great warrior. Wars not make one great." -Yoda
>>
>> |
>> | '-._"7' |"Freedom is still the most radical idea of
>> all" -N.Branden|
>> |  /'.-c  |Linux registered user #402901, http://counter.li.org/     |
>>
>> |  |  /T  |http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ |
>> | _)_/L I http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ |
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-- 
|---------|----------------------------------------------------------|
| __.-._  |"Ohhh. Great warrior. Wars not make one great." -Yoda     |
| '-._"7' |"Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden|
|  /'.-c  |Linux registered user #402901, http://counter.li.org/     |
|  |  /T  |http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ |
| _)_/L I http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ |
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