[talk-ph] Meeting with waypoints.ph 20091010

maning sambale emmanuel.sambale at gmail.com
Mon Oct 20 06:05:18 BST 2008


Here's a transcript of the meeting with the waypoints.ph/RPMap guys
last saturday 20081018.  Eugene and me attended the meeting,  I think
it went quite well, and further discussions on collaboration came up.
The mail below details what happened and the prospects for duture
partnership.  Eugene, I hope I got the jist of the discussions right.
Please correct where appropriate.



The meet-up with louie is quite interesting!  I actually prepared a
presentation about OSM but didn't get to present it.  Anyway, louie
barged me with a lot questions mostly technical about OSM. I think we
(me and Eugene) were able to answer them convincingly.

Here are some of my thoughts on the discussions:

For one I believe OSM, RPMap and waypoints.ph have a lot in common.
Driven by the desire to provide free mapping data for the Philippines,
we created/participated/initiated our own mapping data project.  We
basically use gps traces as a basic input to our map canvass.

Each mapping effort has its pros and cons.  waypoints and rpmap (being
older) is way ahead in terms of compiled info anf coverage, its information was
centrayy maintained by a group of highly motivated mapmakers.  On the
otherhand, OSM (its principles of openness and its architecture) I
believe can be
faster and more efficient in creating new data as well as maintaining
existing data.

Obviously, the natural trajectory between the three projects would be
collaboration and in particular data sharing.

If I get this right waypoints.ph and RPMap has a number of data OSM
can use:
* Road network for the whole country
* Lots and lots of POIs
* GPS traces

All these information can be imported easily (?) into OSM, however, I
suggest we do the imports in stages.  This is to ensure that we catch
problems (both technical and social) early on.

== POIs ==
We were able to add POIs of Metro Manila, which Jan sent me.  This is
documented here:

The basic data structure is like this:
source:url: http://www.freewebs.com/phroadguide/
is_in:region: Ncr
amenity: place_of_worship
is_in:city: Quezon City
is_in:country: Philippines
garmin:description: place of worship
source: jklinc
name: Iglesia Ni Cristo
created_by: gml2osm
is_in:zip: 1100

Louie and Ed would like to add more POIs with the following conditions:
1. Each POI/waypoint should have proper credit/attribution to the
person who contributed the data
2. The source url should be directed to waypoints.ph and rpmap.org

I think this can be easily done when we import the POIs.  We could
include additional tags like this:

--> "changed" source:url: http://www.waypoints.ph
--> "added" contributor: juan_dela_cruz
is_in:region: Ncr
amenity: place_of_worship
is_in:city: Quezon City
is_in:country: Philippines
garmin:description: place of worship
source: jklinc
name: Iglesia Ni Cristo
created_by: gml2osm
is_in:zip: 1100

One concern I see is, we need to review the previous import we
made from the data given by Jan.  One option is to remove all the data
imported.  We then import it again adding the other tags above.  But I
think we need to talk to Jan first.

Second, I think we need to inform and get consent from individual
contributors.  Their contributions is for waypoints and rpmap.  They
might disagree in adding their contributions into OSM, especially when
we talk about OSM's license
( http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0/ ) .  We all know that OSM allow
the use of data for commercial purposes.  Some contributors might be
uncomfortable with such clause.  I think we should import only data
from contributors that gave explicit permission.  I know this would be
a lot of coordinating work from your side, but I think this is the
proper way of doing it.

== ROADS ==
Before we import additional roads we also need to review whats already
in OSM and in RPMap/waypoints.ph.  From the overlay we did during the
meeting,  I see that both data (OSM and rpmap/waypoints.ph) have
varying degrees of completeness in many areas.  I can for certain say
that the Marikina area of OSM is more complete and accurate (because I
did them myself) than from rpmap/waypoints.ph.  In other areas it
could be the other way (especially in the provincial areas).

We need to devise a minimal review scheme before uploading.

Traces is also of particular importance to OSM as a "proof of
authenticity" that the data is not copied from copyrighted materials
(like Googlemaps or other copyrighted maps).  This would be fairly
easy to import once we get permission from the contributors for
reasons same as above.

== OSM Philippines/waypoints.ph/RPMap community ==
Louie also floated the idea of a joint community symposium initiall
scheduled on Nove 15, I personally welcome this opportunity for
sharing and discussion.  We need to firm up details on how to run

In adding the data to OSM, we have to  accept the fact that OSM is a
wiki; no administrator, no gate keepers, no controllers.  In such an
open environment imported data maybe changed, deleted, reverted.  We
have to relinquish our ownership on the data itself.  The community
now owns the data and we have to trust the community to improve it and
use it for purposes they see fit (in accordance to its license of

In summary, I think this partnership is a great benefit for both
communities and the country's geospatial community as whole.  I hope
this is a start of flourishing and more fruitful endeavors in the

For further discussions.


PS.  I will also send this mail to the OSM Philippine mailing list (
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-ph )

On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 3:20 PM, maning sambale
<emmanuel.sambale at gmail.com> wrote:
> Eugene and others,
> Yes it will be this coming saturday.  Send me your number off-list so
> I can discuss it to you.  We are still firming up the actual details.
> I will inform the group as soon as I get some info.
> My gameplan is to:
> Present an in-depth orientation about OSM (it's principles and way of
> doing things)
> Progress of OSM Philippines (Mike can I borrow your sides from SOTM?)
> How to use JOSM and potlatch
> We can also probably discuss some Philippine oriented tagging
> Any ideas?
> cheers,
> maning
> On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 8:11 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar <seav80 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Maning,
>> The meeting is this Saturday? I might be able to help you, just as long as
>> can beg out from the beer-drinking, hehehe. Where did you guys meet and what
>> time. Will the venue and the time be the same as well?
>> Regards,
>> Eugene
>> On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 8:29 PM, Maning Sambale <emmanuel.sambale at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> Yesterday I had a couple of beer with the waypoints.ph guys.  Some of
>>> them know OSM already but most are very interested on it's rapid growth
>>> in the Philippines (particularly Metro Manila).
>>> I talked a bit about the project, it's principles and even showed a demo
>>> of potlatch in action.
>>> Some of them questioned it's accuracy and reliability but I think I was
>>> able to answer them in favor of OSM.  Some of them are interested to
>>> donate data and contribute.  We will have another meeting (next week,
>>> 20081018) for a detailed tutorial on data gathering and JOSM.
>>> I might need help from others in this group for the tutorials.  Anyone
>>> who wants to go along?
>>> cheers,
>>> maning
>>> On Wed, 2008-10-08 at 22:08 +0800, maning sambale wrote:
>>> > Hi,
>>> >
>>> > Just to keep everybody posted. I was invited by waypoints.ph
>>> > maintainer ed garcia
>>> > (http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/ed_waypointsdotph) to attend the
>>> > waypoints eyeball. This is an informal gathering of GPS enthusiasts.
>>> > They know about OSM and I hope by attending, we can encourage more
>>> > contributors.
>>> >
>>> > We'll report here what transpired.
>>> >
>>> > cheers,
>>> > maning
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> talk-ph mailing list
>>> talk-ph at openstreetmap.org
>>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
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