[talk-ph] Fwd: Draft "MoA" between the OSM-F and any possible localchapter

Eugene Alvin Villar seav80 at gmail.com
Sun Aug 16 15:33:14 BST 2009

Hi guys,

Here's the response of Nick, of the Local Chapters working group about the
concerns of setting up a local chapter for the Philippines.

Eugene / seav

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Nick Black <nick at osmfoundation.org>
Date: Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 12:52 AM
Subject: Re: [talk-ph] Draft "MoA" between the OSM-F and any possible
To: Eugene Alvin Villar <seav80 at gmail.com>
Cc: Mike Collinson <mike at ayeltd.biz>, osm-ph <talk-ph at openstreetmap.org>

Hi Eugene,
Could you forward this to the osm-ph list?  I'm offline, on a plane, right
now and can't sign up to the list.  If you could keep me in the cc'd on this
discussion, it would be appreciated.

First off, hello Philippines list!  Its been great seeing your community
grow over the last few years.  I hope the OSM-Foundation can support you
more as you grow.

First, I agree that membership fees are not a viable way to fund the OSM-F.
 Its my, somewhat controversial ;-), belief that by mid 2011 ish, OSM will
have 1,000,000 members, 100,000 active mappers and 10,000 OSM-F members,
around the world.  10,000 x £10 is £100,000, which will probably not fund
the hard disks, CPUs and RAM need to support the 1,000,000 members and all
of the other users.

Your idea regarding PPP is a good one - I'll suggest it in the next meeting.
 In the meantime, if you could add it to the local chapters wiki page (
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Foundation/Local_Chapters) it will help
the community see your idea.

I'm also not wedded to the idea of Local Chapters having to charge a
membership fee.  We have to look at what we are achieving.  The whole point
of Local Chapters is to help OSM grow around the world and to allow the
OSM-F to help OSM organizations develop.  The OSM-F is going to be raising
more and more funds centrally, which it will be able to use to help Local
Groups.  But maybe centralizing all of the fund raising is not a good way to
scale things.  It could be better to enable local groups to fundraise, using
their relationship to OSM-F to gain status and recognition.  I'd be
interested to hear what you think about this model?

So far as Local Chapters go, we're going to be publishing the next steps
needed to get Local Chapters going on the wiki page this week.  From there
we'll try and get a call set up next week in which we can go through any
issues or questions.  It would be great to have someone from the Philippines
community on the call.



On 8 Aug 2009, at 07:06, Eugene Alvin Villar wrote:

Hi Mike,

Thanks for bringing the OSMF perspective here.

I'm not experienced in these things, but I don't think membership fees would
be feasible as the main source of funding of OSMF in the long run with
respect to the technical operating costs (legal, administrative, etc. costs
are fine). As I recall, OSM had a server donation drive early this year and
I think the total donation (£16,222) *far* exceeded the total annual
membership fees that can be collected (160 members x £15 = £2400).

I see that fundraising is one of the thrusts of OSMF in the near to mid
future but I don't think increasing the collected membership fees via
federated local chapters is a healthy way to go about it. This might result
in local groups doing OSMF-y things in their countries their own way
(Germany springs to mind).

But if some form of payment is needed for purposes of local chapters, I can
think of two options:

1. Adjust the £10 per member fee to reflect purchasing power parity (PPP).
If my calculations are correct, this comes out to £4.38 for the Philippines
which is a more feasible P350.

2. Have a per chapter bulk fee (again adjusted for PPP).

A drastic alternative would be to model the OSMF local chapter system to
that of Wikimedia Foundation's. As far as I know, the Wikimedia local
chapters have no financial obligations to WMF, though they can help in their
own ways (like Wikimedia Deutschland donating toolservers for the Wikimedia
projects to use).


On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 10:21 PM, Mike Collinson <mike at ayeltd.biz> wrote:

>  The dilemma for for us at the main OSM Foundation is that by setting up
> local chapters, our main reliable source of funding, the annual
> subscriptions that members pay, may no longer come in directly.  Much of
> that money is spent on computer hardware to keep our sites up, and a
> proportion on promoting OSM globally and a proportion on legal and other
> costs.  These subscriptions are GBP 15 annually ... so the figure of GBP 10
> is essentially saying that the local chapter should keep 1/3 for local costs
> and promotion.
> In a European and North American context, that is not an unreasonable
> figure for most countries.  For example, I am a member of a small town cycle
> club with no great costs and the annual membership is GBP 18.
> However, elsewhere, I concur with Eugene that it will be too much.  It will
> be a deterrent to recruiting members and be a large an inclusive
> organisation.  I am sure it is no coincidence that the Philippines has an
> active and increasingly large community but no OSMF members at all.
> I suspect the solution is for you to simply negotiate a lower rate, but any
> other ideas are welcome.
> What would be a big win for all of us is to be collectively much bigger
> than we are now but still have a income to grow with. Nick has suggested
> 13,000, i.e. around 10% of folks who register an OSM account.  That would
> certainly make us much more representative than our membership today of 160!
> Mike
> At 04:08 PM 6/08/2009, Eugene Alvin Villar wrote:
> I think I mentioned this before but I disagree with the fee. In the draft
> agreement, the idea is to pay £10 *for each member of the local chapter*!
> I think this is too much.
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 7:36 PM, maning sambale <emmanuel.sambale at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>  I added our plans to form an OSM-PH org here:
>  http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Foundation/Local_Chapters
> I also requested/nominated Entrhopia to take on the interim Sec/Treas
> position at the moment.
> Another thing we should look into:
> "Local Chapters would pay the Foundation a fee based on the number of
> members (£10 is currently proposed)."
> On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 4:42 AM, Ronny Ager-Wick - Develo
> Ltd.<raw at develo.ltd.uk> wrote:
> > Sorry I missed this.
> > Yes, I still volunteer, and I'm going to the Phils in 3 weeks anyway, so
> if
> > it will happen between 3 and 7 weeks from now, perfect!
> > Ronny.
> >
> >
> > Eugene Alvin Villar wrote:
> >
> > Ronny volunteered to be one of the incorporators before:
> > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-ph/2009-May/000901.html
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 7:07 PM, Andre Marcelo-Tanner <
> andre at enthropia.com>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> no responses yet, need 1 more, 4 cannot make a company, need 5
> >
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> >
> --
> cheers,
> maning
> ------------------------------------------------------
> "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden
> wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/
> blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
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Nick Black
Chair of State of the Map 2009 and Local Chapters and Federation Working
nick at osmfoundation.org

Openstreetmap Foundation
16 Oakfield Glade
KT13 9DP
United Kingdom
A company limited by guarantee, registered in England and Wales.
Registration No. 05912761.

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