[talk-ph] talk-ph Digest, Vol 10, Issue 8

Ahmed Farooq ahmed at enthropia.com
Thu May 7 01:30:09 BST 2009


Im personally against all commercial POIs, unless they are a country-wide
landmark (eg a baseball stadium).


-----Original Message-----
From: talk-ph-bounces at openstreetmap.org
[mailto:talk-ph-bounces at openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of noel mondragon
Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 8:22 PM
To: talk-ph at openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [talk-ph] talk-ph Digest, Vol 10, Issue 8


My suggestion is that we can POI like drugstores, fastfood but we will not
put the name like McDonalds or Jollibee or Mercury Drugstore??or resort? Is
it that feasible. It will make the OSM as commercially-oriented if we put
commercial establishments with names....

Comments? thanks.

-noel


--- On Wed, 5/6/09, talk-ph-request at openstreetmap.org
<talk-ph-request at openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> From: talk-ph-request at openstreetmap.org
<talk-ph-request at openstreetmap.org>
> Subject: talk-ph Digest, Vol 10, Issue 8
> To: talk-ph at openstreetmap.org
> Date: Wednesday, May 6, 2009, 8:55 AM
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> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. POIs Part 2 (Ahmed Farooq)
>    2. Re: What level of POIs do we add? (was Click the
> City)
>       (Eugene Alvin Villar)
>    3. Re: What level of POIs do we add? (was Click the
> City)
>       (Ronny Ager-Wick - Develo Ltd.)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 11:40:05 -0400
> From: "Ahmed Farooq" <ahmed at enthropia.com>
> Subject: [talk-ph] POIs Part 2
> To: "'Eugene Alvin Villar'"
> <seav80 at gmail.com>,	"'maning
> sambale'"
> 	<emmanuel.sambale at gmail.com>
> Cc: 'OSM' <talk-ph at openstreetmap.org>
> Message-ID: <01f601c9ce60$ee0643a0$ca12cae0$@com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Hi All,
> 
>  
> 
> I have to add - have you seen the Boracay map? While it
> looks fantastic that
> it is all mapped out, naming each resort/business there has
> lead to a map
> that looks absolutely bloated and is unreadable at times.
> 
>  
> 
> For example
>
http://www.openstreetmap.org.ph/map/c/11.960549689657205/121.925368309021/17
> / - "Mango Ray Shenna's Resort" - are those
> two places? One? Which building
> is covered by their name? Multiple buildings or just one?
> 
>  
> 
> A POI should be a notable location that a tourist may be
> interested in - a
> statue, a building, even a public transit location. But
> specific businesses
> (be it fast food joints or specific resorts) only create
> clutter and a mess
> - which will only get worse as businesses are created and
> others go out of
> business.
> 
>  
> 
> Having too much data (especially as part of the primary
> data set) is
> contrary to the spirit of an open user-maintained map.
> 
>  
> 
> -A
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> From: talk-ph-bounces at openstreetmap.org
> [mailto:talk-ph-bounces at openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of
> Eugene Alvin Villar
> Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 11:28 AM
> To: maning sambale
> Cc: OSM
> Subject: Re: [talk-ph] What level of POIs do we add? (was
> Click the City)
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 10:18 PM, maning sambale
> <emmanuel.sambale at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> Just my take,
> 1.  If it's on the ground it should be mapped.
> 
> 
> This is a good guideline in general but of course a line
> has to be drawn
> somewhere (pun not intended). I don't think drawing the
> individual stripes
> of a pedestrian walkway is productive even if it *is* on
> the ground. A map
> is supposed to be a representation--not a facsimile of the
> real world.
> That's why we represent roads in OSM using center lines
> and not (at the
> moment) as areas.
>  
> 
> 2.  If somebody bothered to map fishball vendors in Luneta,
> nobody's
> stopping him.
> 
>  
> Fishball vendors are probably not a good example for your
> point since they
> are too ephemeral to be mapped. But anyway, OSM is a
> community project and
> we work on consensus. While we do encourage people to map
> what they think
> are important, I don't think we should just let people
> map things like
> "Location of Mark and Jenny's first kiss",
> right?
> 
> 3 years ago (am I that old in OSM?), my only goal is to map
> major
> highways around the metro, now it's there.  But we want
> more.  We've
> mapped footways, cycleways, I even saw driveways somewhere.
>  If
> somebody sees the importance of a certain feature then by
> all means
> let them map it.
> 
> If I can collect data for breeding sites of all the
> endangered bird
> species (and I think it is important) I will possibly map
> it here.
> 
> I agree there should be some limits and priorities (at the
> moment) but
> I am hopeful we will get to a point where we will map
> individual
> houses with addresses
> 
> 
> I disagree that the limits are there just for the moment. I
> think there
> should be a limit imposed at all times (the limit can move
> over time, but
> there is still a limit). For instance, Wikipedia has
> guidelines on what is
> NOT acceptable (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:NOT)
> eventhough the presence
> of those guidelines run counter to Wikipedia's lofty
> aim to be the "sum of
> all human knowledge".
> 
> I think individual features for detached residential houses
> are OK, but I
> really don't think we need to place a point for every
> unit in high-rise
> condominiums.
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 8:20 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar
> <seav80 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > It's tempting to mark out in OSM all of the
> Jollibee, McDonald's, and
> > Starbucks branches in the Philippines but I'm
> wondering if this is wise.
> Do
> > we mark out every retail store, every bank branch,
> every Western
> > Union/FedEx/LBC outlet, and every company's office
> in OSM? My personal
> take
> > is that we don't need to.
> >
> > One big problem is multi-storey malls like SM Megamall
> that have hundreds
> of
> > tenants. It'll be quite unwieldy to maintain and
> edit overlapping POIs in
> > such a small land area.
> >
> > I feel that the level of detail we should attain is
> down to the building
> > level. If we know that there's a Jollibee in
> Megamall Building A, then
> it's
> > enough for us to map out where Building A is, but not
> where the Jollibee
> > there is exactly.
> >
> > In the specific case of malls, exceptions will be
> added for anchor
> tenants,
> > like in SM Megamall: the SM Department Store, ACE
> Hardware, SM
> Supermarket,
> > SM Cinemas, the Megatrade Halls, etc. No need to mark
> out each and every
> > McDo, KFC, Jollibee, Bench, Penshoppe, Levi's,
> BPI, Chinabank, etc. in the
> > mall.
> >
> > A comprehensive database of all retail addresses is
> better suited to
> > something like OpenYellowPages, not OpenStreetMap.
> >
> > What do you guys think?
> >
> >
> > On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 11:31 AM, maning sambale
> <emmanuel.sambale at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> What I mean is address information (we've
> discussed it already, and
> >> agreed it is important, unless I'm mistaken)
> not specific business
> >> establishment (although it is attached to the
> address).  We also have
> >> numerous POIs added already.
> >>
> >> On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 11:12 AM, Ahmed Farooq
> <ahmed at enthropia.com>
> wrote:
> >> > I don't think adding business data to OSM
> is a good idea - that data
> >> > changes far too often and is far more complex
> in upkeep.
> >> >
> >> > -A
> >> >
> >
> > --
> > http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> cheers,
> maning
> ------------------------------------------------------
> "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all"
> -N.Branden
> wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/
> blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> talk-ph mailing list
> talk-ph at openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com
> 
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 23:42:51 +0800
> From: Eugene Alvin Villar <seav80 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [talk-ph] What level of POIs do we add? (was
> Click the
> 	City)
> To: Rally de Leon <ralleon at gmail.com>
> Cc: OSM <talk-ph at openstreetmap.org>
> Message-ID:
> 	<a07a5a700905060842g4b8e4782q2a8287fc0ed29b72 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 11:28 PM, Rally de Leon
> <ralleon at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > If you have access to (data of) all locations of
> Jollibee, McDonalds,
> > 7-Eleven, Ministops, Mercury Drugs and all these big
> companies, by all means
> > mark them. With the exceptions of those already inside
> big malls (which will
> > just clutter the map); we only need the mall-building
> itself as a landmark
> > (POI) together with position of entrance gates and
> parking lots.
> >
> 
> Well, my idea is that if a McDo branch exists as a
> standalone building then
> there's no problem drawing the building outline and
> adding name=McDonald's,
> amenity=fastfood to it. But, as you've said, I
> don't think that means that
> we should also place a point for the McDonald's inside
> Robinsons Galleria.
> 
> This implies that one *cannot* query the OSM database and
> get the coordinate
> locations of *all* the McDonald's branches in Metro
> Manila (you'll only get
> partial info). To get the full information, one should look
> elsewhere (e.g.,
> go to www.mcdonaldsph.com, or look at ClicktheCity.com, or
> even start an
> OpenYellowPages) then geocode the obtained addresses using
> street data from
> OSM to get the actual coordinates. This actually helps
> create mashups
> applications using OSM as a tool.
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 17:04:36 +0100
> From: "Ronny Ager-Wick - Develo Ltd."
> <raw at develo.ltd.uk>
> Subject: Re: [talk-ph] What level of POIs do we add? (was
> Click the
> 	City)
> To: OSM <talk-ph at openstreetmap.org>
> Message-ID: <4A01B514.5020605 at develo.ltd.uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Eugene, I think what you suggest sound sensible. Could we
> use this as a
> rule of thumb:
> "If it has a door out to street level, then it can be
> mapped as a POI".
> This way, a shop or fast foot outlet in a mall can be
> mapped only if
> they have a separate entrance. All other shops are *inside*
> the mall.
> This way it's also consistent with for example a
> Jollibee that is
> located on the ground floor of an office building, as it
> will have its
> own entrance.
> Ronny.
> 
> Eugene Alvin Villar wrote:
> > On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 11:28 PM, Rally de Leon
> <ralleon at gmail.com
> > <mailto:ralleon at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> >     If you have access to (data of) all locations of
> Jollibee,
> >     McDonalds, 7-Eleven, Ministops, Mercury Drugs and
> all these big
> >     companies, by all means mark them. With the
> exceptions of those
> >     already inside big malls (which will just clutter
> the map); we
> >     only need the mall-building itself as a landmark
> (POI) together
> >     with position of entrance gates and parking lots.
> >
> >
> > Well, my idea is that if a McDo branch exists as a
> standalone building
> > then there's no problem drawing the building
> outline and adding
> > name=McDonald's, amenity=fastfood to it. But, as
> you've said, I don't
> > think that means that we should also place a point for
> the McDonald's
> > inside Robinsons Galleria.
> >
> > This implies that one *cannot* query the OSM database
> and get the
> > coordinate locations of *all* the McDonald's
> branches in Metro Manila
> > (you'll only get partial info). To get the full
> information, one
> > should look elsewhere (e.g., go to www.mcdonaldsph.com
> > <http://www.mcdonaldsph.com>, or look at
> ClicktheCity.com, or even
> > start an OpenYellowPages) then geocode the obtained
> addresses using
> > street data from OSM to get the actual coordinates.
> This actually
> > helps create mashups applications using OSM as a tool.
> >
> >
> > -- 
> > http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > talk-ph mailing list
> > talk-ph at openstreetmap.org
> > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
> >   
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> 
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> talk-ph at openstreetmap.org
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> 
> End of talk-ph Digest, Vol 10, Issue 8
> **************************************


      

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