[talk-ph] talk-ph Digest, Vol 10, Issue 11
noel mondragon
noel_pylon03 at yahoo.com
Thu May 7 06:33:45 BST 2009
I agree with Eugene in regards with POI. If it is in the mall or building it is unusable if we put it on the map. Am i right?
noel
--- On Wed, 5/6/09, talk-ph-request at openstreetmap.org <talk-ph-request at openstreetmap.org> wrote:
> From: talk-ph-request at openstreetmap.org <talk-ph-request at openstreetmap.org>
> Subject: talk-ph Digest, Vol 10, Issue 11
> To: talk-ph at openstreetmap.org
> Date: Wednesday, May 6, 2009, 7:17 PM
> Send talk-ph mailing list submissions to
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: What level of POIs do we add? (was Click the
> City)
> (maning sambale)
> 2. Re: What level of POIs do we add? (was Click the
> City)
> (Marloue Pidor)
> 3. Re: talk-ph Digest, Vol 10, Issue 8 (Marloue Pidor)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 09:30:44 +0800
> From: maning sambale <emmanuel.sambale at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [talk-ph] What level of POIs do we add? (was
> Click the
> City)
> To: OSM <talk-ph at openstreetmap.org>
> Message-ID:
> <f902f9840905061830p4d15030fi787faea83e34b95c at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Just a short note (need to work), this discussion is
> really
> interesting. I hope we can document/summarize and convert
> to a useful
> mapping convention. Keep it coming. :)
>
> On 5/7/09, Ronny Ager-Wick - Develo Ltd.
> <raw at develo.ltd.uk> wrote:
> > Eugene, I think what you suggest sound sensible. Could
> we use this as a
> > rule of thumb:
> > "If it has a door out to street level, then it
> can be mapped as a POI".
> > This way, a shop or fast foot outlet in a mall can be
> mapped only if
> > they have a separate entrance. All other shops are
> *inside* the mall.
> > This way it's also consistent with for example a
> Jollibee that is
> > located on the ground floor of an office building, as
> it will have its
> > own entrance.
> > Ronny.
> >
> > Eugene Alvin Villar wrote:
> >> On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 11:28 PM, Rally de Leon
> <ralleon at gmail.com
> >> <mailto:ralleon at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >> If you have access to (data of) all locations
> of Jollibee,
> >> McDonalds, 7-Eleven, Ministops, Mercury Drugs
> and all these big
> >> companies, by all means mark them. With the
> exceptions of those
> >> already inside big malls (which will just
> clutter the map); we
> >> only need the mall-building itself as a
> landmark (POI) together
> >> with position of entrance gates and parking
> lots.
> >>
> >>
> >> Well, my idea is that if a McDo branch exists as a
> standalone building
> >> then there's no problem drawing the building
> outline and adding
> >> name=McDonald's, amenity=fastfood to it. But,
> as you've said, I don't
> >> think that means that we should also place a point
> for the McDonald's
> >> inside Robinsons Galleria.
> >>
> >> This implies that one *cannot* query the OSM
> database and get the
> >> coordinate locations of *all* the McDonald's
> branches in Metro Manila
> >> (you'll only get partial info). To get the
> full information, one
> >> should look elsewhere (e.g., go to
> www.mcdonaldsph.com
> >> <http://www.mcdonaldsph.com>, or look at
> ClicktheCity.com, or even
> >> start an OpenYellowPages) then geocode the
> obtained addresses using
> >> street data from OSM to get the actual
> coordinates. This actually
> >> helps create mashups applications using OSM as a
> tool.
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com
> >>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> talk-ph mailing list
> >> talk-ph at openstreetmap.org
> >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
> >>
> >
>
>
> --
> cheers,
> maning
> ------------------------------------------------------
> "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all"
> -N.Branden
> wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/
> blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 18:55:54 -0700
> From: "Marloue Pidor"
> <murlwe at mail2Engineer.com>
> Subject: Re: [talk-ph] What level of POIs do we add? (was
> Click the
> City)
> To: <raw at develo.ltd.uk>
> Cc: talk-ph at openstreetmap.org
> Message-ID:
> <200d01c9ceb6$f4eea4e0$066a010a at mail2world.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> In this case
>
> http://openstreetmap.org/?lat=7.078087&lon=125.614181&zoom=18&layers=B00
> 0FTF
>
> Only KFC, Gerry's Grill and Pizza Hut have street
> level/accessible
> entrance. So if we agree on that "rule of thumb"
> to mapped only if they
> have a separate entrance. Should I remove Jollibee and
> McDonald's? Or
> retain the data as long as it is not cluttered?
>
> And in another case
>
> http://openstreetmap.org/?lat=7.062681&lon=125.593989&zoom=18&layers=B00
> 0FTF
>
> All of these food chains do not have a street level
> entrance.
>
>
> murlwe
>
> <-----Original Message----->
> >From: Ronny Ager-Wick - Develo Ltd. [raw at develo.ltd.uk]
> >Sent: 5/7/2009 12:05:36 AM
> >To: talk-ph at openstreetmap.org
> >Subject: Re: [talk-ph] What level of POIs do we add?
> (was Click the
> City)
> >
> >Eugene, I think what you suggest sound sensible. Could
> we use this as a
> rule of
> >thumb:
> >"If it has a door out to street level, then it can
> be mapped as a POI".
> >This way, a shop or fast foot outlet in a mall can be
> mapped only if
> they have a
> >separate entrance. All other shops are *inside* the
> mall. This way it's
> also
> >consistent with for example a Jollibee that is located
> on the ground
> floor of an
> >office building, as it will have its own entrance.
> >Ronny.
> >
> >Eugene Alvin Villar wrote:
> >On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 11:28 PM, Rally de Leon
> <ralleon at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >If you have access to (data of) all locations of
> Jollibee, McDonalds,
> 7-Eleven,
> >Ministops, Mercury Drugs and all these big companies,
> by all means mark
> them.
> >With the exceptions of those already inside big malls
> (which will just
> clutter
> >the map); we only need the mall-building itself as a
> landmark (POI)
> together
> >with position of entrance gates and parking lots.
> >
> >
> >Well, my idea is that if a McDo branch exists as a
> standalone building
> then
> >there's no problem drawing the building outline and
> adding
> name=McDonald's,
> >amenity=fastfood to it. But, as you've said, I
> don't think that means
> that we
> >should also place a point for the McDonald's inside
> Robinsons Galleria.
> >
> >This implies that one *cannot* query the OSM database
> and get the
> coordinate
> >locations of *all* the McDonald's branches in Metro
> Manila (you'll only
> get
> >partial info). To get the full information, one should
> look elsewhere
> (e.g., go
> >to www.mcdonaldsph.com, or look at ClicktheCity.com, or
> even start an
> >OpenYellowPages) then geocode the obtained addresses
> using street data
> from OSM
> >to get the actual coordinates. This actually helps
> create mashups
> applications
> >using OSM as a tool.
> >
> >
> >
> >--
> >http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >talk-ph mailing list
> >talk-ph at openstreetmap.org
> >http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
> >
>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 19:15:57 -0700
> From: "Marloue Pidor"
> <murlwe at mail2Engineer.com>
> Subject: Re: [talk-ph] talk-ph Digest, Vol 10, Issue 8
> To: <noel_pylon03 at yahoo.com>
> Cc: talk-ph at openstreetmap.org
> Message-ID:
> <09f601c9ceb9$c1d62bc0$066a010a at mail2world.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Noel,
>
> This is my opinion...
>
> It is feasible but not practical, the names of the
> establishments will
> be used as our points of interest (POI). My point is, those
> establishments is on the ground and should be mapped and
> identified. OSM
> will not become as you say it
> "commercially-oriented" instead, it will
> be very useful to have those POIs intact. For example, if
> you are
> looking for Mercury Drug because it is your preferred
> drugstore then if
> the scenario is all the names of these drugstores were
> removed, you will
> be guessing and hoping that the next drugstore is the one
> you preferred.
> Its really hard to use the map that way. In my case I
> downloaded the OSM
> tiles into my Palm (osm2palm) and I use it whenever I'm
> in Manila the
> establishment's names were very useful for me to
> identify my location in
> the map.
>
>
> murlwe
>
> <-----Original Message----->
> >From: noel mondragon [noel_pylon03 at yahoo.com]
> >Sent: 5/7/2009 8:23:11 AM
> >To: talk-ph at openstreetmap.org
> >Subject: Re: [talk-ph] talk-ph Digest, Vol 10, Issue 8
> >
> >My suggestion is that we can POI like drugstores,
> fastfood but we will
> not put
> >the name like McDonalds or Jollibee or Mercury
> Drugstore??or resort? Is
> it that
> >feasible. It will make the OSM as commercially-oriented
> if we put
> commercial
> >establishments with names....
> >
> >Comments? thanks.
> >
> >-noel
> >
> >
> >--- On Wed, 5/6/09, talk-ph-request at openstreetmap.org
> ><talk-ph-request at openstreetmap.org> wrote:
> >
> >> From: talk-ph-request at openstreetmap.org
> ><talk-ph-request at openstreetmap.org>
> >> Subject: talk-ph Digest, Vol 10, Issue 8
> >> To: talk-ph at openstreetmap.org
> >> Date: Wednesday, May 6, 2009, 8:55 AM
> >> Send talk-ph mailing list submissions to
> >> talk-ph at openstreetmap.org
> >>
> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide
> Web, visit
> >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
> >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body
> >> 'help' to
> >> talk-ph-request at openstreetmap.org
> >>
> >> You can reach the person managing the list at
> >> talk-ph-owner at openstreetmap.org
> >>
> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it
> is more
> >> specific
> >> than "Re: Contents of talk-ph digest..."
> >>
> >>
> >> Today's Topics:
> >>
> >> 1. POIs Part 2 (Ahmed Farooq)
> >> 2. Re: What level of POIs do we add? (was Click
> the
> >> City)
> >> (Eugene Alvin Villar)
> >> 3. Re: What level of POIs do we add? (was Click
> the
> >> City)
> >> (Ronny Ager-Wick - Develo Ltd.)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 1
> >> Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 11:40:05 -0400
> >> From: "Ahmed Farooq"
> <ahmed at enthropia.com>
> >> Subject: [talk-ph] POIs Part 2
> >> To: "'Eugene Alvin Villar'"
> >> <seav80 at gmail.com>, "'maning
> >> sambale'"
> >> <emmanuel.sambale at gmail.com>
> >> Cc: 'OSM'
> <talk-ph at openstreetmap.org>
> >> Message-ID:
> <01f601c9ce60$ee0643a0$ca12cae0$@com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="us-ascii"
> >>
> >> Hi All,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I have to add - have you seen the Boracay map?
> While it
> >> looks fantastic that
> >> it is all mapped out, naming each resort/business
> there has
> >> lead to a map
> >> that looks absolutely bloated and is unreadable at
> times.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> For example
> >>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org.ph/map/c/11.960549689657205/121.92536830902
> 1/17
> >> / - "Mango Ray Shenna's Resort" -
> are those
> >> two places? One? Which building
> >> is covered by their name? Multiple buildings or
> just one?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> A POI should be a notable location that a tourist
> may be
> >> interested in - a
> >> statue, a building, even a public transit
> location. But
> >> specific businesses
> >> (be it fast food joints or specific resorts) only
> create
> >> clutter and a mess
> >> - which will only get worse as businesses are
> created and
> >> others go out of
> >> business.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Having too much data (especially as part of the
> primary
> >> data set) is
> >> contrary to the spirit of an open user-maintained
> map.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -A
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: talk-ph-bounces at openstreetmap.org
> >> [mailto:talk-ph-bounces at openstreetmap.org] On
> Behalf Of
> >> Eugene Alvin Villar
> >> Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 11:28 AM
> >> To: maning sambale
> >> Cc: OSM
> >> Subject: Re: [talk-ph] What level of POIs do we
> add? (was
> >> Click the City)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 10:18 PM, maning sambale
> >> <emmanuel.sambale at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> Just my take,
> >> 1. If it's on the ground it should be mapped.
> >>
> >>
> >> This is a good guideline in general but of course
> a line
> >> has to be drawn
> >> somewhere (pun not intended). I don't think
> drawing the
> >> individual stripes
> >> of a pedestrian walkway is productive even if it
> *is* on
> >> the ground. A map
> >> is supposed to be a representation--not a
> facsimile of the
> >> real world.
> >> That's why we represent roads in OSM using
> center lines
> >> and not (at the
> >> moment) as areas.
> >>
> >>
> >> 2. If somebody bothered to map fishball vendors in
> Luneta,
> >> nobody's
> >> stopping him.
> >>
> >>
> >> Fishball vendors are probably not a good example
> for your
> >> point since they
> >> are too ephemeral to be mapped. But anyway, OSM is
> a
> >> community project and
> >> we work on consensus. While we do encourage people
> to map
> >> what they think
> >> are important, I don't think we should just
> let people
> >> map things like
> >> "Location of Mark and Jenny's first
> kiss",
> >> right?
> >>
> >> 3 years ago (am I that old in OSM?), my only goal
> is to map
> >> major
> >> highways around the metro, now it's there. But
> we want
> >> more. We've
> >> mapped footways, cycleways, I even saw driveways
> somewhere.
> >> If
> >> somebody sees the importance of a certain feature
> then by
> >> all means
> >> let them map it.
> >>
> >> If I can collect data for breeding sites of all
> the
> >> endangered bird
> >> species (and I think it is important) I will
> possibly map
> >> it here.
> >>
> >> I agree there should be some limits and priorities
> (at the
> >> moment) but
> >> I am hopeful we will get to a point where we will
> map
> >> individual
> >> houses with addresses
> >>
> >>
> >> I disagree that the limits are there just for the
> moment. I
> >> think there
> >> should be a limit imposed at all times (the limit
> can move
> >> over time, but
> >> there is still a limit). For instance, Wikipedia
> has
> >> guidelines on what is
> >> NOT acceptable
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:NOT)
> >> eventhough the presence
> >> of those guidelines run counter to Wikipedia's
> lofty
> >> aim to be the "sum of
> >> all human knowledge".
> >>
> >> I think individual features for detached
> residential houses
> >> are OK, but I
> >> really don't think we need to place a point
> for every
> >> unit in high-rise
> >> condominiums.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 8:20 PM, Eugene Alvin
> Villar
> >> <seav80 at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> > It's tempting to mark out in OSM all of
> the
> >> Jollibee, McDonald's, and
> >> > Starbucks branches in the Philippines but
> I'm
> >> wondering if this is wise.
> >> Do
> >> > we mark out every retail store, every bank
> branch,
> >> every Western
> >> > Union/FedEx/LBC outlet, and every
> company's office
> >> in OSM? My personal
> >> take
> >> > is that we don't need to.
> >> >
> >> > One big problem is multi-storey malls like SM
> Megamall
> >> that have hundreds
> >> of
> >> > tenants. It'll be quite unwieldy to
> maintain and
> >> edit overlapping POIs in
> >> > such a small land area.
> >> >
> >> > I feel that the level of detail we should
> attain is
> >> down to the building
> >> > level. If we know that there's a Jollibee
> in
> >> Megamall Building A, then
> >> it's
> >> > enough for us to map out where Building A is,
> but not
> >> where the Jollibee
> >> > there is exactly.
> >> >
> >> > In the specific case of malls, exceptions
> will be
> >> added for anchor
> >> tenants,
> >> > like in SM Megamall: the SM Department Store,
> ACE
> >> Hardware, SM
> >> Supermarket,
> >> > SM Cinemas, the Megatrade Halls, etc. No need
> to mark
> >> out each and every
> >> > McDo, KFC, Jollibee, Bench, Penshoppe,
> Levi's,
> >> BPI, Chinabank, etc. in the
> >> > mall.
> >> >
> >> > A comprehensive database of all retail
> addresses is
> >> better suited to
> >> > something like OpenYellowPages, not
> OpenStreetMap.
> >> >
> >> > What do you guys think?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 11:31 AM, maning
> sambale
> >> <emmanuel.sambale at gmail.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> What I mean is address in
> >
> >=== message truncated ===
>
>
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