[talk-ph] [OSMPH GPS:14] place= ?

[Rally de Leon]

Can we discuss this thoroughly, and settle this once for all? :-)

here is my opinion on this:

-1 for use of hamlet on subdivisions/gated community
reason: hamlet is defined as smaller rural community typically with
some 100 inhabitants
proposal: drop the use of hamlet, since even the mkgmap (compiler)
recognize hamlet as a small town

-1 for use of locality on subdivisions/gated community
reason: locality is reserved for unpopulated named place
proposal: let's use locality for (none-sitio/none purok) rural name of
an areas with no defined boundary

-1 for place=subdivision
reason: not generally used in osm. the term is too general (there are
residential, industrial and agricultural subdivisions) it doesn't even
apply to large condominium complex

+1 place=village ---> exclusively for name of "barangay" only
reason: we have been doing this already in PH mapping;
it follows the OSM heirarchy city>town>village>neigborhood

+1 place=suburb or place=locality for Districts in a City (eg. Cubao)
- those places with no definite boundaries

+1 place=farm for well established farmland/industrial
farming/plantations/hacienda in excess of 1 hectare


+1 place=neighbourhood ---> all other places that are normally smaller
than a barangay: gated community, subdivisions, large townhouse
projects, multi-buildings condo complex, purok, sitio, phase (of a
very large subdivision)

Reason1: Neigbourhood is defined as a named part of a place=village, a
place=town or a place=city. Smaller than place=suburb. (which is a
good approximate in PH setting.)
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:place

Reason2: there are subdivisions larger than a barangay; subdivision
located in 2 or more town boundaries; subdivisions=one whole barangay;
large rural sitio that became smaller (portion was bought & converted
to a large subdivision); 1 sitio=1 purok; registered & unregistered
HOA (eg. neigborhood assoc informal settlers); HOA within a
residential subdivision; 2-combined Phases of Subd into 1 HOA;
townhouse project within a subdivision; etc. etc. etc.

While if we use 'neighbourhood' for all the above complicated
combinations, we simplify things for novice mappers, mail messengers,
and the general public; those who may want to filter/extract address
data from OSM; it also addresses rendering issues of places on maps of
existing Apps.

Why is "neighborhood' (neighbourhood) so important?
1.Because in PH, (AFAIK) there is no existing law or standard followed
in naming roads, thus...
2.There are some "duplicate street names" within the same town or barangay.
3.There are countless addresses in PH that does not have a 'street
names', solely relying on 'neigborhood' info
4.We still use the obsolete 4-digit zipcode for an entire town in most
areas in PH (which just make town_name redundant).
5.The only way to make a street_name unique, is to specify the name of
the 'neigbourhood', not just the barangay.

----------------
Example of a typical (none-building) Address in PH:
Address1:  3 Mabolo St.
Address2:  Purok 2,  Barangay San Juan
Taytay, Rizal 1920

Address1: [Street No./Block#-Lot# / Kilometer Marker] [Street / Highway]
Address2: [Neighbourhood] + [Barangay Name]
[City/Town] + [Province Name]
Zip Code

where: neigbourhood = Subdivision&Phase# / Purok / Sitio / Gated
Community / HomeOwners Assoc, etc

Take Note: OSM doesn't have provision for PH's
subd/purok,sitio,HOA,gated community, because of the ambiguous
hierarchy of these places mentioned above.
"place=neighbourhood", maybe the closest and most appropriate tag for
PH's equivalent of "Address2" including barangay name.

I happen to own a small messengerial business, and this issue of
'wrong or incomplete address' format supplied by the ignorant
customers themselves is very costly for the entire mail-delivery
industry, resulting in high number of late deliveries,
return-to-sender; waste of precious fuel and man-hours.

Maybe thru OSM, fellow mappers can help us start to sort out,
simplify, propose for standardized PH Address System (thru your
congressmen). It will be easier/simpler/faster for third parties to
extract/filter out address data &/or automatically correct wrong
format by matching them with an official database of correct
addresses.

Thank you very much & mabuhay!

Rally :-)

On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 9:53 PM, schadow1 <schadow1 at cxsmedia.com> wrote:
> I've been mapping subdivisions and thought that the place handler for such
> is "subdivision" as i am seeing several mappers using it. However i've seen
> at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:place that there is no such place.
>
> I'm seeing recent edits of manning that he uses "hamlet" but that is only
> for a place with 100-200 in a rural location. It is appropriate to use
> village on this? thank you
>
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