[talk-ph] Possible collaboration with OSM and DOH to locate health facilities

Mon Feb 11 14:24:17 GMT 2013

Hi Eugene,

It seems my last email did not reach the mailing list. I am therefore
sending it again with some complements here regarding the Intellectual
property code which I forgot to mention in my initial email.

I went through section 176 of the code and the issue for the DOH is actually
in the second sentence of this section: “However, prior approval of the
government agency or office wherein the work is created shall be necessary
for exploitation of such work for profit.”

If I am not wrong, OSM ODbl allows for commercial use of the data, right? 

Thanks in advance for your feedback on both the above and what is in my
previous email hoping it will reach the mailing list this time.

Take care, Steeve

Steeve Ebener, Ph.D. 
CEO Gaia GeoSystems

P.O. Box 795 – P.C. 114, Muscat - Oman
cell: +968 952 57 526
email:  <mailto:steeve.ebener at gaia-geosystems.org>
steeve.ebener at gaia-geosystems.org

web:  <http://www.gaia-geosystems.org/> www.gaia-geosystems.org 

Twitter: @GaiaGeosystems

LinkedIn:  <http://www.linkedin.com/in/steeveebener>
http://www.linkedin.com/in/steeveebener

logo_emails_72One Planet, One System

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From: Steeve Ebener [mailto:steeve.ebener at gaia-geosystems.org] 
Sent: samedi 9 février 2013 07:49
To: 'Eugene Alvin Villar'
Cc: 'osm-ph'; 'Mark Anthonie Bello'; 'gerald aguinaldo'
Subject: RE: [talk-ph] Possible collaboration with OSM and DOH to locate
health facilities

Hi Eugene,

Thanks for your new email and feedback.

This allows me to introduce one think we explained to Maning when we meet
last time and which I should also have introduced in this exchange of
emails.

The location of health facilities is part of a large project aiming at
improving information management within the DOH in general and the way
geographic information is handled in particular. As such, we are working on
defining the guidelines and standards to be used by the DOH in the future. 

One of these standards concerns the collection of GPS points by DOH staff
and the form I shared with you is one expression of it. Collecting 5
decimals reading is therefore part of this “Golden standard”. We need this
for particular context including emergency response.

This being said, we are conscious that getting there will take some time and
that, if we were to apply this standard to the current dataset, only few
points would comply.

This is why we came up with some Health Facility location quality label
based on the following 7 criteria:

1.       Source of the lat/long is known? 

2.       Lat/long collected with a GPS device? 

3.       Number of satellite signal equal or bigger than 4? 

4.       Accuracy reading below 15 meters? 

5.       5 digits after the decimal point? 

6.       Waypoint known?

7.       Point falls within the municipality (min/max lat/long for the
municipality)? 

If the answer to all the 7 criteria is yes you obtain a quality 7 point
which would be the standard we are aiming for the DOH on the long term. 

Points which would present 4 digits would therefore also be taken into
account but have a lower quality label. They would definitively be included
in the dataset until they could get replace by a higher quality level point.
I hope this answers your question and address the issue. Please don’t
hesitate to let me know if this is not the case.

Thanks then also for your feedback regarding Bing Map. This is great news
and I therefore thank you in advance for your suggestions on how to include
this option into the form as well as the process (and settings) to be
followed in order to obtain a good quality ready with this platform.

Best regards, Steeve

Steeve Ebener, Ph.D. 
CEO Gaia GeoSystems

P.O. Box 795 – P.C. 114, Muscat - Oman
cell: +968 952 57 526
email:  <mailto:steeve.ebener at gaia-geosystems.org>
steeve.ebener at gaia-geosystems.org

web:  <http://www.gaia-geosystems.org/> www.gaia-geosystems.org 

Twitter: @GaiaGeosystems

LinkedIn:  <http://www.linkedin.com/in/steeveebener>
http://www.linkedin.com/in/steeveebener

logo_emails_72One Planet, One System

P Please don't print this e-mail unless you really need to. Thank you

From: Eugene Alvin Villar [mailto:seav80 at gmail.com] 
Sent: vendredi 8 février 2013 21:09
To: Steeve Ebener
Cc: osm-ph; Mark Anthonie Bello; gerald aguinaldo
Subject: Re: [talk-ph] Possible collaboration with OSM and DOH to locate
health facilities

Hi Steeve,

On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 8:44 PM, Steeve Ebener
<steeve.ebener at gaia-geosystems.org> wrote:

Dear Eugene,

Thank you very much for your very good feedback.

First of all, I just realized that attachments were not kept in the
discussion list. I have therefore posted here the proposed form for data
collection:
<http://www.gaia-geosystems.org/PROJECTS/PHL/HF_fields_for_OSM_040213.doc>
http://www.gaia-geosystems.org/PROJECTS/PHL/HF_fields_for_OSM_040213.doc.

Now coming back to your feedback:

1.       Device used for location health facilities: Any device would be
fine as long as they allow to capture all the associated information
reported in the form (nbr of sat signal, horizontal accuracy, 5 decimals).

Hmmm. 5 decimal places leads to a precision of about 1 meter. Most
consumer-grade GPS devices don't have that precision. 

2.       Use of Bing Map: Did you ever do an assessment of the horizontal
accuracy of the images you can access through this platform? If yes, what is
the maximum horizontal error you have encountered over the Philippines? If
not, I would be interested in discussing a way to estimate this accuracy
before these images are being used for collecting points. What about the
availability of high resolution images in Bing map? Would you consider it
has being equal or better than in Google Earth?

Actually, the aerial imagery found in Bing Maps has the same quality
characteristics as that of Google Maps. As you may know, satellite imagery
coverage, whether it comes from Google or Bing, is a patchwork of individual
satellite images obtained from various satellite companies like DigitalGlobe
and GeoEye. Sometimes the position is spot on, sometimes not and it may be
off by around 5 meters or more.

In some places, Google has higher resolution than Bing. In other places,
it's the other way around. Sometimes Google has newer imagery, and in some
places, Bing has newer imagery. In some places, Google has imagery where
Bing has none and in other places, it's the other way around.

Hmmm... now that I think about it, why do you even need an accuracy of 1
meter? Even 10 meters (4 decimal places) is good enough especially for
hospitals and big clinics that are bigger than 10x10 meters.

I know that it would be good to be as accurate as possible, but if you end
up rejecting perfectly valid data especially in remote areas of the country
just because a clinic is not located down to the meter, then the effort
might be a waste. We don't need to have almost-perfect data on the first
try. Even just "good enough" would be OK for most applications I can think
of.

3.       Copyright: thanks for pointing us to the Intellectual property code
of the Philippines. I I downloaded it from here
http://www.aijc.com.ph/PCCF/observatory/pfd%20files/policies/IPR/ipr.pdf
but could not find the sentence you are referring to. Could you please tell
me in which section of the document it is mentioned? Maybe that the above
link does not point to the complete document.

The PDF you downloaded is just Part I of the law. You can find a copy of the
complete law here:
http://www.lawphil.net/statutes/repacts/ra1997/ra_8293_1997.html

Please refer to Section 176.

Eugene

Thanks once more for your inputs and in advance for your answer on the
above.

Best regards, Steeve

Steeve Ebener, Ph.D. 
CEO Gaia GeoSystems

P.O. Box 795 – P.C. 114, Muscat - Oman
cell: +968 952 57 526 <tel:%2B968%20952%2057%20526> 
email:  <mailto:steeve.ebener at gaia-geosystems.org>
steeve.ebener at gaia-geosystems.org

web:  <http://www.gaia-geosystems.org/> www.gaia-geosystems.org 

Twitter: @GaiaGeosystems

LinkedIn:  <http://www.linkedin.com/in/steeveebener>
http://www.linkedin.com/in/steeveebener

From: Eugene Alvin Villar [mailto:seav80 at gmail.com] 
Sent: lundi 4 février 2013 20:04
To: Steeve Ebener
Cc: osm-ph; Mark Anthonie Bello; gerald aguinaldo
Subject: Re: [talk-ph] Possible collaboration with OSM and DOH to locate
health facilities

Hi Steeve,

We have some interesting issues here...

On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 1:27 PM, Steeve Ebener <
<mailto:steeve.ebener at gaia-geosystems.org>
steeve.ebener at gaia-geosystems.org> wrote:

Dear Maning,

Thank you very much for your email to the group and all the great work you
guys are doing.

Few complement of information from our side:
- we need to standardize the way location are collected either using GPS
devices or Google Earth/map. The attached form is therefore proposed for
your review/feedback/comments.
- In order to avoid duplication of work, the DOH would provide OSM with the
list of facilities (including DOH codes) for which a coordinate is missing

If OSM contributors will help locating health facilities by adding data to
the OSM database, then our source will either be any of the following:

1. GPS device (standalone like Garmin or TomTom, or a mobile app like on
Android or iOS)

2. By locating on Bing Maps. We cannot use Google Maps or Google Earth to
add data to the OSM database, but we have permission from Microsoft to use
Bing Maps aerial imagery to add data ONLY to the OSM database. Other people
are free to obtain the same data but via OSM's database license.

3. By extrapolating from the existing OSM data. For example, given an
address of a facility, it may be possible to locate the facility just by
interpreting the address.

- Regarding the data sharing issue. It is now clear that we will have to
keep OSM and DOH geo-location DB separated which means that:
        - it will unfortunately not be possible to integrate DOH points in
OSM data

This I find interesting. According to the Intellectual property code of the
Philippines (R.A. 8293), "No copyright shall subsist in any work of the
Government of the Philippines." If the DOH data has been collected by DOH
employees in the course of their official duties, then there is no
copyright. The non-profit clause has been argued to be a separate right from
copyright.

If that is the case, then it *may be* should be possible to include the pure
DOH data into OSM.

        - OSM collected points will be integrated into DOH DB with a clear
mention of the source. I of course can't promise this will happen for sure,
but I will personally work on getting an official acknowledgement from the
DOH regarding OSM contribution to this work. In addition to that, the first
discussion I had seems to indicate that it will be possible for OSM to
mention their contribution to filling the gaps in DOH's DB. Please bare with
me on this as there is still some way to go but I will keep pushing.

Have you read the ODbL, which is the open license under which OSM data is
licensed? Certainly, attribution to the OSM contributors is required, but
the share-alike property also needs to be followed.

Regards,
Eugene

Looking forward hearing from the group on your email and the above (I have
registered to the mailing list) and the possibility to work together on
this.

Best regards, Steeve

Steeve Ebener, Ph.D.
CEO Gaia GeoSystems
P.O. Box 795 – P.C. 114, Muscat - Oman
cell:  <tel:%2B968%20952%2057%20526> +968 952 57 526
email:  <mailto:steeve.ebener at gaia-geosystems.org>
steeve.ebener at gaia-geosystems.org
web:  <http://www.gaia-geosystems.org> www.gaia-geosystems.org
Twitter: @GaiaGeosystems
LinkedIn:  <http://www.linkedin.com/in/steeveebener>
http://www.linkedin.com/in/steeveebener

One Planet, One System

P Please don't print this e-mail unless you really need to. Thank you

-----Original Message-----
From: maning sambale [mailto: <mailto:emmanuel.sambale at gmail.com>
emmanuel.sambale at gmail.com]
Sent: vendredi 1 février 2013 15:03
To: osm-ph; Steeve Ebener; Mark Anthonie Bello
Subject: Possible collaboration with OSM and DOH to locate health facilities

Dear everyone,

I had a meeting with Department of Health (DOH) IMS division on the
possibility of collaborating with the OSM-PH community.  No clear plans yet
on the collaboration but I would like to put forward the discussions in this
list.

= Overview =
Basically, DOH intends to improve their database for the location of health
facilities in the country.  They will use the data on several information
management of the Department.  At the moment, they have several database
developed in various projects.
Each db uses a different system but one thing they lack is a uniform
geographic identifier.  An example of the db is available in the Unified
Health Management Information System portal [0].  This online portal lists
~21,000 health facilities all over the country.

At the moment they were able to geocode ~4,000 locations [2] (~20%).

= What they need from OSM =

A couple of ideas that were discussed are:
 - Verify the location of the 4,000 geocoded facilities in the existing OSM
data.  Right now, there isn't any clear evaluation on the accuracy of the
locations (a process of Q/A is now being developed).
Some facilities are actually in Sulu Sea!  Check out the southern part of
Negros island [2].
 - Fill in the gaps. the IMS division have limited funds to individually
verify and take GPS readings of each facility.  OSM data can possibly fill
in the gaps.  Using the Overpass turbo [3], I was able to check that we have
~1,100 amenity=hospital ways and nodes.
Note that some maybe duplicates and I have not included other health
facilities like barangay health centers (tagged as amenity=clinic
clinic=public [4]).
 - Ask the community to map more health facilities.  The only additional tag
they want included is the Health Facility Code (an alphanumeric code similar
to NSCB's PSGC [5]).  This code will allow them to link the OSM geometry
into their health facility db.
 - Train DOH staff to edit OSM.
 - Build some easy to use tools to collect data in the field.

= Pending issues =
As with most government data, they are available only on a non-commercial
use.  Specifically, the DOH generated locations.  For the other information
in the online db, they are OK with public access without restrictions. This
will be in conflict with OSM's ODbL.  A workaround discussed was to separate
the DOH db with OSM's data points.  No public db will be distributed that
integrates both data sources.  Is this in compliance with the ODbL?  If not,
what are other ways in which we can use OSM data in relation to DOH's plans.

Everything I've listed are open to discussions.  I included here two people
from DOH to keep them aware of the discussions. (@ Steeve and Mark, please
subscribe to our mailinglist [6] to keep track of the
discussions)

Regardless of what DOH intends to do, I encourage everyone to include health
facilities in your own list of things to map.

Thanks!

---
[0]  <http://uhmis1.doh.gov.ph/UnifiedHMIS/>
http://uhmis1.doh.gov.ph/UnifiedHMIS/
[1]
<http://uhmis1.doh.gov.ph/doh_facility/rfacilitieslist.php?cmd=resetall>
http://uhmis1.doh.gov.ph/doh_facility/rfacilitieslist.php?cmd=resetall
[2]  <http://maps.doh.gov.ph/facilities.html>
http://maps.doh.gov.ph/facilities.html
[3]  <http://overpass-turbo.eu/> http://overpass-turbo.eu/
[4]
<http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-ph/2010-March/001872.html>
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-ph/2010-March/001872.html
[5]  <http://www.nscb.gov.ph/activestats/psgc/default.asp>
http://www.nscb.gov.ph/activestats/psgc/default.asp
[6]  <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph>
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph

--
cheers,
maning
------------------------------------------------------
"Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden
wiki:  <http://esambale.wikispaces.com/> http://esambale.wikispaces.com/
blog:  <http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/> http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
------------------------------------------------------

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