[Talk-tr] Mapping battle site Canakkale (Gallipoli), Turkey
Warin
61sundowner at gmail.com
Mon Jan 6 23:59:40 UTC 2014
I too am 'new to OSM'. But I think we should all be valued in our
opinions/thoughts and work. So if your 'new' or 'old' ... your
opinion/thoughts may help to come to a better understanding/solution?
I've now got quite a few things up. Some memorials I cannot guess at the
name so I've just marked them and left the name alone.
------- On Language
The Australian & New Zealanders who visit the site are primary
interested in the activities of their countrymen there and have probably
read one (or more) of the many books on the subject written from an
ANZAC perspective, some are NZ or Australian bias too! A search on
'trove' (Aust. National Library search engine - covers all the Aust.
librarys) for Gallipoli (as it is known here) comes up with 2,699 ..
these are book titles, 47 of them in Braille, some may be different
editions or different entries for the same book but still it is a lot
(long link
http://trove.nla.gov.au/book/result?q-field0=&q-type0=all&q-term0=Gallipoli&q-field1=title%3A&q-type1=all&q-term1=&q-field2=creator%3A&q-type2=all&q-term2=&q-field3=subject%3A&q-type3=all&q-term3=&q-year1-date=&q-year2-date=&l-advformat=&l-advformat=&l-advformat=&l-advformat=&l-advformat=&l-availability=&l-discipline=&l-language=).
They use the 'English' names as that is what the book relates to - the
ANZACs on the ground. There are some recent books from the Turkish
perspective (available here in English). So my entries are towards the
ANZAC names used then, as that is what most Australians and New
Zealanders would relate too. I think the language issue is very much
dependant on the end user and their knowledge. I'd like to see both
languages available.
Hopefully the rendering will take into account the end users language
(and make sense out of complications I leave)?
I'm waiting on a response from the Aust. War Memorial regarding
copyright permission. If I get that I'll use the Turkish names (not
really a translation, but a Turkish name for the same object/place that
the ANZACs named something else) that I linked to previously, these are
by someone (I think you'd recognise the name?) who was there at the time
and is Turkish so would be a good source for time and place relevance?
If that does not come through the if you have a source without copyright
restrictions then go for it. On that site I'd rather have the historic
name than any new name ... as a mark of respect .. and as more usefull
to the visitors most of whom want historic information.
One problem is that the landscape is changing with errosion, cannot help
that, so a ridge then may not be so pronounced or maybe we just don't
have bullets wizzing around.
-------------- on OSM
I've had some trouble with the name:en .. as I have a source:name tag
and that gives me a warning message that I have a source:name without a
name tag .. though I have a name:en tag ... Think I'll get around it by
changing the source:name tag to just a source tag.
Looks like the beach and valley tags might work best as an enclosed area
rather than a line I have them at at this time. I'll change one and see
what that does. I'll have to learn how to match the beach line to the
shore line .. another tricky thing to do. So I'll do a valley first.
I've put 'gully' (a common Australian term for a dry creek bed usually
with sharp sides) in as an intermittent stream, used by an American as
found by googling.
----------------
At the moment it is a 'work in progress' ... another few days and I
should be finished until copyright comes through (or doesn't)? I'll let
you know for - me being 'finished' stage 1 - entries of what I have
copyright free, stage 2 Aust. War Memorial copyright permission yes/no,
stage 3 (if stage 2 yes) Turkish names + any other entries. That sound
sensible/reasonable?
If you have any comments - make them .. even if I reply with what you
might think a resounding counter argument, I'll still be thinking of
your first comment. Can take me a while to properly come to a good
solution/resolution of my thoughts.
On 6/01/2014 11:54 PM, fatih at erpnedir.com wrote:
> Hi Warrin,
> Firstly, thank you for your kind request for our opinion.
> I am new to osm, so my words reflect my view.
>
> I think the data you input must be based on Turkish names. Maybe it can be
> multilangual if it is possible. The people who visit the battle field would
> get much from Turkish names because they are the names currently used.
>
> Remember that Allied Powers was at Gallipoli just for 8 months. So I am
> against to see the landmarks with their naming.
>
> Of course the memorials, and some important land marks which has referring
> in English literature or army content can be good for anyone.
>
> I request the view of experienced osm volunteers on this issue.
>
> I also offer my help to find out current and historic names of the entities.
> ---------------
> Arkadaşlar Merhaba,
> Ben Gelibolu yer isimlerini, işgal kuvvetlerinin isimleri ile görmeye
> karşıyım.
> Sizin de görüş ve önerilerinizi rica ediyorum.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: talk-tr-request at openstreetmap.org
> [mailto:talk-tr-request at openstreetmap.org]
> Sent: Monday, January 06, 2014 2:01 PM
> To: talk-tr at openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Talk-tr Digest, Vol 50, Issue 2
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> 1. Fwd: Re: Mapping battle site Canakkale (Gallipoli), Turkey
> (Warin)
> 2. Re: Mapping battle site Canakkale (Gallipoli), Turkey
> (Roman Neum?ller)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2014 15:03:54 +1100
> From: Warin <61sundowner at gmail.com>
> To: talk-tr at openstreetmap.org
> Subject: [Talk-tr] Fwd: Re: Mapping battle site Canakkale
> (Gallipoli), Turkey
> Message-ID: <52CA2B2A.6080409 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
>
> HI,
>
> I've found some Turkish maps of the Canakkale area - copyrite expired so
> they should be useable to OSM. They are old .. say 1916? But should give
> information on the historical battlefield. Some of these are Turkish!
> http://www.awm.gov.au/search-awm/collections/?q=G7432.G1+S65&conflict=all&su
> bmit=Search
>
>
> Unfortunatly they are presented at 72dpi .. making the finer details
> unreadable.
>
> I've placed a few deatils from one of them .. yet to do more.
>
> Did a little housekeeping in the area - road ending near roads but not
> joined - joined where bing indicates, ways crossing ways - added nodes to
> make routing possible etc.
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 5:57 AM, Warin <61sundowner at gmail.com
> <mailto:61sundowner at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> With the forthcoming services at I've taken the trouble of mapping
> the present memorials (and their associated roads, paths .. in some
> cases adjacent paths so people don't take the wrong ones) at
> Canakkale (Gallipoli), Turkey. A few were maped in the south (mainly
> British, about 4), one road was GPS sourced, other roads looked to
> be bing tracings. I've tried to get them all (OZ, NZ and Turkish
> mainly), there maybe a few left (at least 2 I think) but I've not
> found them with bing.
>
> The Question?
> Should I now map the named ridges, gullies etc that were used by
> 'us' (and/or named by 'us') in the action? These would be historic
> 'English' names e.g. 'second ridge', 'valley of despair', 'cooee
> gully'. My source for this is copyright .. so I'll need permission
> from them (or another source). But before I ask for that I'd like an
> indication that the mapped features would not offend you.
>
> ------------------------
> Apologies for the english language, if someone could translate it in
> to Turkish it would be aprecialted.
>
> Happy New Year
>
> Warin.
>
>
>
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> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2014 09:17:18 +0200
> From: Roman Neum?ller <email at katpatuka.org>
> To: talk-tr at openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [Talk-tr] Mapping battle site Canakkale (Gallipoli),
> Turkey
> Message-ID: <op.w887u4r9kn9205 at bigmama>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1254; format=flowed;
> delsp=yes
>
> it should be ok using english names
> you could also use name:en tag...
>
> Roman
>
> On Mon, 06 Jan 2014 06:03:54 +0200, Warin <61sundowner at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> HI,
>>
>> I've found some Turkish maps of the Canakkale area - copyrite
>> expired so they should be useable to OSM. They are old .. say 1916?
>> But should give information on the historical battlefield. Some of
>> these are Turkish!
>> http://www.awm.gov.au/search-awm/collections/?q=G7432.G1+S65&conflict=
>> all&submit=Search
>>
>>
>> Unfortunatly they are presented at 72dpi .. making the finer details
>> unreadable.
>>
>> I've placed a few deatils from one of them .. yet to do more.
>>
>> Did a little housekeeping in the area - road ending near roads but
>> not joined - joined where bing indicates, ways crossing ways - added
>> nodes to make routing possible etc.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 5:57 AM, Warin <61sundowner at gmail.com
>> <mailto:61sundowner at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> With the forthcoming services at I've taken the trouble of mapping
>> the present memorials (and their associated roads, paths .. in some
>> cases adjacent paths so people don't take the wrong ones) at
>> Canakkale (Gallipoli), Turkey. A few were maped in the south (mainly
>> British, about 4), one road was GPS sourced, other roads looked to
>> be bing tracings. I've tried to get them all (OZ, NZ and Turkish
>> mainly), there maybe a few left (at least 2 I think) but I've not
>> found them with bing.
>>
>> The Question?
>> Should I now map the named ridges, gullies etc that were used by
>> 'us' (and/or named by 'us') in the action? These would be historic
>> 'English' names e.g. 'second ridge', 'valley of despair', 'cooee
>> gully'. My source for this is copyright .. so I'll need permission
>> from them (or another source). But before I ask for that I'd like an
>> indication that the mapped features would not offend you.
>>
>> ------------------------
>> Apologies for the english language, if someone could translate it in
>> to Turkish it would be aprecialted.
>>
>> Happy New Year
>>
>> Warin.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Talk-tr mailing list
>> Talk-tr at openstreetmap.org <mailto:Talk-tr at openstreetmap.org>
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-tr
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> katpatuka.org
>
>
>
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