[Talk-transit] catching up

Peter Miller peter.miller at itoworld.com
Sat Jan 10 17:33:36 GMT 2009

On 10 Jan 2009, at 16:35, Thomas Wood wrote:

> 2009/1/10 Peter Miller <peter.miller at itoworld.com>:
>> On 10 Jan 2009, at 14:58, Thomas Wood wrote:
>>> 2009/1/10 Peter Miller <peter.miller at itoworld.com>:
>> Good work. I will go thought it at some point and make my own  
>> observations.
>> Initial comment. Can we please import the naptan fields using the  
>> identical
>> attribute unless there is a really good reason not to; for example  
>> AtcoCode
>> should be imported into naptan:AtcoCode rather than naptan:id. The  
>> reason
>> for this is to avoid confusions (there are about 6 'ids' for the  
>> stop,
>> platecodes, privatecodes and naptancodes all of which will be  
>> treated by
>> someone as the 'id'.
> The number of codes is bewildering

Unfortunately the official standards do balloon. Some of the fields  
will not be populated, and some are not very exciting for us.

> I'm wondering how the London bus
> stop scheme fits into all this.
> http://flickr.com/photos/grandedgemaster/2633740988/

The letter 'C' should be in Indicator'

The code J517 might be in private code or plate code, not sure - it  
isn't used in public facing services.

> I've usually collected the reference letter and the yellow ID code
> from the ones I've mapped. And tagged them (ignoring almost everyone
> else's schemes with id= and ref= )

I suggest we do a first pass where we extract the core information and  
then we can do a second pass at some point in the future and get all  
the details out of it. I will add a comment to each field in the page  
you have constructed to say if I think it is normally populated and if  
we should bother with it.

Here is a Stop Point on Tower Bridge Road heading north. Here it is on  

The information OSM has for this is just 'highway=bus stop'

NaPTAN has this stuff:
Full Name: The Borough, Abbey Street Tower Bridge Rd (---)
Location: 533405, 179535 	
Locality: The Borough
Common Name: Abbey Street Tower Bridge Rd
Indicator: ---
Stop Area: Abbey Street  Tower Bridge Rd
Landmark: ---
Atco Code: 490003035N
Nat Gaz Id: E0034790
Stop Type: BCT - MKD
Admin Area: Greater London
Bearing: N

This list doesn't include the NaPTANCode which we should import and  
possibly some other minor or blank fields.

The Stop Point is part of a Stop Area together with the stop on the  
other side of the road.

The Stop Point is in 'The Borough' which has a bunch of other stops  
included and a centre.

Give  me a the exact bus stop position for one you would like data for  
t I will say what it contains.

>> I don't think many people will use the raw attributes a lot. I  
>> assume we
>> will populate other more normal fields from them so it doesn't  
>> matter that
>> they are a little verbose.
>> When the NaPTAN Attribute name is Description/CommonName etc, we  
>> could
>> possible drop the Description/ for the main name (and most only  
>> have one I
>> think).  If there are more than one then we can construct a more  
>> complex
>> name. So the main CommonName would be naptan:CommonName, not
>> naptan:Descriptor/CommonName
> Yes, the Descriptor/ bits are just for the reference of anybody
> creating a converter, rather than being used as a part of the tag.



>> Let us know how you get on - I see that you are still plugging away  
>> at it.
> -- 
> Regards,
> Thomas Wood
> (Edgemaster)

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