[Talk-transit] catching up

Thomas Wood grand.edgemaster at gmail.com
Sun Jan 11 03:31:32 GMT 2009

2009/1/10 Peter Miller <peter.miller at itoworld.com>:
> On 10 Jan 2009, at 16:35, Thomas Wood wrote:
>> 2009/1/10 Peter Miller <peter.miller at itoworld.com>:
>>> On 10 Jan 2009, at 14:58, Thomas Wood wrote:
>>>> 2009/1/10 Peter Miller <peter.miller at itoworld.com>:
> Unfortunately the official standards do balloon. Some of the fields will not
> be populated, and some are not very exciting for us.
>> I'm wondering how the London bus
>> stop scheme fits into all this.
>> http://flickr.com/photos/grandedgemaster/2633740988/
> The letter 'C' should be in Indicator'

The schema they give the fantastic example of "100 yards from Town
Hall", so TfL are obviously using this in their own manner.
Any idea how its being used outside of London? The current (not
required) status set by Hubne should be changed...

> I suggest we do a first pass where we extract the core information and then
> we can do a second pass at some point in the future and get all the details
> out of it. I will add a comment to each field in the page you have
> constructed to say if I think it is normally populated and if we should
> bother with it.

Would this comply with the DfT's requirement for the source data to be
deleted after import?
We definitely need an idea of which parts of the schema are actually
populated. The schema gives plenty of places for data to be possibly
duplicated and thus inconsistant.
(For example, I'm thinking of: StopClassification/StopType = AIR,
which requires that StopClassification/OffStreet/Air/Entrance is

> Here is a Stop Point on Tower Bridge Road heading north. Here it is on OSM
> http://openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.499117&lon=-0.078325&zoom=18&layers=B000FTF
> The information OSM has for this is just 'highway=bus stop'
> NaPTAN has this stuff:
> Full Name: The Borough, Abbey Street Tower Bridge Rd (---)
> Location: 533405, 179535
> Locality: The Borough
> Common Name: Abbey Street Tower Bridge Rd
> Indicator: ---
> Stop Area: Abbey Street  Tower Bridge Rd
> Landmark: ---
> Atco Code: 490003035N
> Nat Gaz Id: E0034790
> Stop Type: BCT - MKD
> Admin Area: Greater London
> Bearing: N
> This list doesn't include the NaPTANCode which we should import and possibly
> some other minor or blank fields.
> The Stop Point is part of a Stop Area together with the stop on the other
> side of the road.

How would we model StopAreas in OSM, with relations?

I've finished the bulk of the schema transcription to the wiki, I've
just got to finish the intricacies with the different types of OnRoad
and OffRoad bus stops.
I've also realised that most of the NPTG data is going to be..
interesting, I'm not sure how much of it will be practically usable..
(I also note that it gives its data sources too - SourceLocalityType
in http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/NaPTAN/Tag_mappings#Locality I
wonder whether the OS will like us if we import a large proportion of
what is essentially their place gazetteer data :)

Thomas Wood

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