[Talk-transit] NaPTAN bus stop database import

Roger Slevin roger at slevin.plus.com
Sun Mar 1 21:51:13 GMT 2009


It would be very misleading to the OSM community for them to take any notice
of your "hope" to have stopareas everywhere in the NaPTAN database. More
than half of the country do not use stopareas at all in the journey planner
that they use - and there is no reason for the three regions I am familiar
with to create stopareas where they don't exist.  Creating them as explicit
stopareas, where we have perfectly good procedures that maintain implicit
stopareas automatically, is not only a lot of work - but also requires
continual maintenance.  We do not have the resources to do this - so your
"hope" is quite unrealistic.

>From a DfT perspective the stoparea is an optional feature within NaPTAN -
and there is no realistic prospect for that to change at a national level.

OSM should ignore stopareas in NaPTAN, therefore - and focus on the
stoppoint records which are the fundamental content of NaPTAN.

Best wishes


-----Original Message-----
From: talk-transit-bounces at openstreetmap.org
[mailto:talk-transit-bounces at openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Peter J Stoner
Sent: 01 March 2009 21:18
To: talk-transit at openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-transit] NaPTAN bus stop database import

In message <DEF74E78D2F74302BDF48AD40609AAC4 at REDSOL>
          "Roger Slevin" <roger at slevin.plus.com> wrote:

> Thomas

> You comment that York doesn't appear to be aware of the stoparea principle
> ... this is widespread.  There are no downstream national applications
> make use of stopareas - and no pressure, therefore, to create stoparea

All the journey planners do use StopAreas in one form or another.  
Isn't it that some are completely "implicit", though not necessarily 
requiring identical common names, or just don't publicise their 
StopAreas in NaPTAN (NE England).

While "Implicit" is useful and better than badly constructed 
"explicit", the explicit method gives more control and I hope that 
before too long we will have StopAreas in NaPTAN for all parts of the 

> 2009/3/1 Thomas Wood <grand.edgemaster at gmail.com>:
>> 2009/2/28 Brian Prangle <bprangle at googlemail.com>:
>> In other news, whilst on the train to (and from) York today, I wrote a
>> sizable chunk of the StopArea code for the converter. It's in a mostly
>> working state, the only issues I have to work out are StopArea
>> hierarchies, particularly when a StopArea is defined in another
>> region's dataset, the national rail one, for example.
>> I'm either going to have to do a mass convert of the whole dataset at
>> once (which I'm not looking forward to, since I suspect the memory use
>> will skyrocket), or try and resolve the dependencies by parsing the
>> national datasets to get a hash of all the StopAreas, and then append
>> on the county level StopAreas as and when they're created, finally we
>> can then upload the national StopArea points, as and when we get
>> around to those types of data. (AIrports, NatRail, to name a few)

> Whilst in York, I was able to photograph some bus stops, I've done a
> quick comparison of the data, it seems to be the worst in terms of
> standards compliance so far, but seems to be quite self consistent,
> which is a small bonus.

> Why quote the above? Well, it seems that York is unaware of the
> existance of the StopArea principle. (At least, I couldn't find it in
> a quick grepping of the data).

> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/NaPTAN/Local_schemes#York

Peter J Stoner
UK Regional Coordinator
Traveline                       www.travelinedata.org.uk

a trading name of
Intelligent Travel Solutions Ltd  company number 3826797
Drury House, 34-43 Russell Street, LONDON WC2B 5HA

Talk-transit mailing list
Talk-transit at openstreetmap.org

More information about the Talk-transit mailing list