[Talk-transit] [Spam] Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] NaPTAN dataimport

Joe Hughes joe at headwayblog.com
Sun Mar 8 18:27:18 GMT 2009

Glad to hear it, and I hope to see more evidence of adoption going
forward.  Anything that helps get more data out there in practice can
only be good for the industry.


On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 12:30 AM, Roger Slevin <roger at slevin.plus.com> wrote:
> Joe
> [apologies if this appears twice - last night's posting did not appear to
> get through]
> I think there is a misunderstanding in your question.
> TransXChange is an XML schema based on Transmodel architecture and is
> increasingly used within the UK to exchange route and timetable data, taking
> over from the legacy ATCO.CIF format which is more limited in its
> capabilities.  TransXChange is used in a legal framework for "registering"
> bus services - one of the main bus operators in the country is already well
> advanced with implementing this- whilst others are not yet registering
> services, but the schema is being used extensively for interchanging
> information between operators, information system providers and real-time
> information system operators.
> Transmodel is an abstract database model - and it does NOT have a tangible
> schema associated with it.  What it does, crucially, is to define the terms
> which are used and the relationships between elements in a very
> comprehensive and detailed way.  Whilst implementations in Europe comprise
> legacy systems, the move towards Transmodel based protocols is inescapable
> in many areas - and many countries are now supporting the development of a
> tangible European exchange format (title coined for this is NeTEx for
> Network and Ticketing Exchange) ... which will build on the UK experience of
> TransXChange, and the European work on SIRI (for real time information
> exchange) and IFOPT for location referencing - both of which have their
> foundations in Transmodel.
> Rome was not built in a day - so it is not surprising that national
> protocols such as those developed by the German VDV, and the UK's ATCO.CIF,
> are still in widespread use ... it will take many years before the
> transition to more modern techniques can be implemented.  The drivers for
> such work, though, are clear - they come from the demand for more detailed
> information systems including real time, pedestrian micro-navigation and the
> like.
> Transmodel is already aligned with GDF v4 standards - and a recent review
> confirmed that this alignment will remain valid for GDF v5 .  The European
> standards groups working on the public transport information standards are
> keen to ensure that the fundamentals of their work align with those in both
> the GDF and GIS worlds - and hopefully that view is also reciprocated by the
> geographical community whose protocols and architectures need to reflect the
> realities of transit systems, just as much as they have to reflect the
> realities of all other things that are represented through mapping geo-data.
> Best wishes
> RogerS
> Roger
> -----Original Message-----
> From: talk-transit-bounces at openstreetmap.org
> [mailto:talk-transit-bounces at openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Joe Hughes
> Sent: 07 March 2009 22:31
> To: Peter Miller
> Cc: talk-transit at openstreetmap.org; Talk-gb-westmidlands at openstreetmap.org;
> Brian Prangle; Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)
> Subject: Re: [Talk-transit] [Spam] Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] NaPTAN
> dataimport
> On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 4:13 AM, Peter Miller <peter.miller at itoworld.com>
> wrote:
>> Transmodel was created as a general model for public transport that
>> worked for all modes for all purposes and allowed companies and
>> authorities to mix and match products from different countries. The
>> lead country for Transmodel was France and now all tenders in Europe
>> for this sort of stuff will use Transmodel terminology and all CEN
>> standards will also use it. Transmodel is also used as a standard
>> informally in many other countries when specifying systems because it
>> is there and it works.
> Can you point us to a good list of operators that use Transmodel?
> It would certainly help all of us if there were a widely-used
> representation, but much to my chagrin I have yet to see a single
> publicly-available data set offered in TransXChange format.  From what
> I've seen in my time at Google, many European operators are still
> representing their data in a mishmash of forms that depends largely on
> which country they're in and who provides their operational software.
> Of course, that doesn't make all the thought and debate that's gone
> into Transmodel any less valuable when considering how to represent
> things in OSM.  It's great that folks like you and Roger are lending
> your experience to this discussion.
> Cheers,
> Joe
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