[Talk-transit] bus route/relations done right

[Jozef Riha]

On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 1:13 PM, Peter Miller <peter.miller at itoworld.com> wrote:
>
> On 17 Nov 2009, at 07:35, Ed Loach wrote:
>
>> David wrote:
>>
>>> To these I added the ways in no particular order, then
>>> the stops from origin to destination, and then the stops
>>> on the opposite side of the road going back the other way.
>>> Adding stops like this keeps them in order when displayed
>>> in a list (eg: 7 via Brighstone on öpnvkarte, on relation
>>> browser, whole route on öpnvkarte).  There are sporadic
>>> proposals to make this more logical, such as by adding an
>>> increasing count to each stop for any particular route,
>>> but nothing concrete at the moment.
>>
>> I think adding the nodes in the order you do makes sense. Many of
>> the sporadic proposals seemed to pre-date the API 0.6 update when
>> the members of the relations became ordered. I think there have been
>> discussions on this list about the ways, and one suggestion (IIRC)
>> was to add each direction of a route that goes back and forth as
>> separate relations and make a single relation containing both (can't
>> remember what the names were, but something like line and route). In
>> this instance every member of the "line" relation would have
>> forward/backward next to it, and the reverse "line" would have the
>> same ways with the opposite forward/backward. That seemed overly
>> complicated (though perhaps grudgingly I'll admit a logical model)
>> to me. So I've not done much with bus routes yet. But in theory you
>> could still add all the ways that the bus follows on its route in
>> the order it follows them, including a way in a relation twice if it
>> travels it more than once. But ordering is still awkward. Probably
>> not currently possible in Potlatch, but the relation editing
>> interface in JOSM is getting better over time.
>
> Can I suggest we define some terms.
>
> A Line is all the journeys made using a particular reference (4, X13,
> Citi1 etc). Most people actually use the Route relation for this. This
> should include all the ways that are travelled on by the vehicle and
> all the stops that are called at. It might be helpful to add these
> stops in some sort of order (out then back) but it will not always be
> possible.
>
> A Line Variant (also know as a Service Variant) is a unique stopping
> pattern for a bunch of Journeys within a Line. (ie inbound, outbound,
> inbound via the school, outbound but stopping at the station and not
> going to the end of the route etc). This would include all the stops
> in order. however..... I strongly suggest we don't add this data to
> OSM - it is too complex and not needed for mapping and should be kept
> in the schedules service.
>
> In particular, lets not start using the term Line to describe only a
> single direction (ie a variant) or we will get horribly confused.
>
> I suggest we do some more work on the wiki soon to clarify this stuff.

yes, please. wiki is for many (incl. me) used as a reference.

>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Peter
>
>
>
>>
>> Ed
>>
>>
>>
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