[Talk-transit] One last question (for now)

Peter Miller peter.miller at itoworld.com
Tue Sep 8 18:23:53 BST 2009

On 8 Sep 2009, at 16:17, Péter Connell wrote:

> Problem is determining commonnames without reference to passengers -  
> so
> you end up with Bridge Lane opp Health Centre (n bound) when 'B&Q'  
> would
> be better.

B&Q (opp) would be a nice short name as long as there was not more  
than one B&Q.
> Don't think there is much common at all about naming streets after  
> side
> streets - few people (mappers and posties excluded unfortunately) will
> know the name of many/any streets that they don't reside. Ditto  
> names of
> houses in rural areas. Or numbers - worse.

We currently potentially have three names for bus stops in OSM:-

1) The name in NaPTAN which will be used in journey planners, within  
call-centres and increasingly on timetables
2) The name on the flag (if there is one)
3) A 'better' name in the opinion o the mapper who surveyed it or of  
some person that they asked.

It has not traditionally been the role of OSM mappers to change names  
where they think they are wrong but to believe the evidence and I  
don't see why we are proposing the change that now.

Traveline may be interested in using OSM as a source of better names,  
such as Snooker club (opp) if there is a Snooker club as an amenity on  
the map, however for OSM introduce a new name for the stop which is  
neither printed on the flag nor used on timetables could be very  
unhelpful unless it is clearly as an "alt-name-suggested" which can  
then potentially be taken up by the authorities or not but won't  
appear on the map.

I suggest that the NaPTAN database will increasingly become the source  
of the definitive name which will filter out to all other information  
systems and also onto the bus stop flags. It will however be sensible  
in many cases to review the stop names before that point.

Personally I will leave the 'name' as the NaPTAN 'common name' +  
( 'indicator' ) as per the import and will add the name on the flag as  
an alt-name. If I think they are both silly I will propose a better  
one in a field with a name to be agreed.



> Naming stops is ideally suited for OSM-type crowd sourcing...
> Roger Slevin wrote:
>> That's why having an established commonname (as in NaPTAN) is  
>> important -
>> and we want to grow the practice so that people recognise a stop by  
>> its
>> commonname.  Most of the other names that you suggest are not  
>> names, they
>> are narrative descriptions - which is quite different.  The  
>> commonname is
>> the Given Name - I name this stop "....".  Generally it will take its
>> parentage from a side street or a nearby landmark.
>> Roger
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: talk-transit-bounces at openstreetmap.org
>> [mailto:talk-transit-bounces at openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Ed Loach
>> Sent: 08 September 2009 16:01
>> To: 'Public transport/transit/shared taxi related topics'
>> Subject: Re: [Talk-transit] One last question (for now)
>>> I reckon name should be something like what-people-would-call-
>>> them [or
>>> what bus-drivers-would-understand], not necessarily as flagged.
>> The problem with this would, in the case of the "B&Q" stops be that
>> I could probably say any of the following:
>> I'd like to get off at (or near)
>> * the ambulance station
>> * the snooker club
>> * the Range
>> * Dovercourt Ford
>> * the Rugby Club
>> * the Bowls Club
>> * the Scout hut
>> * the Valleybridge Road junction
>> * (just before/after) the railway bridge
>> which are all around the two stops I mentioned. The one that makes
>> most sense to me, and is used on most of the other stops I've
>> checked, is the one where the stop is named after the nearby side
>> road, as the road is more likely to persist than the other places
>> (well, apart from the railway bridge which survived the cull in the
>> 60s so should persist a while yet).
>> Ed
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