[Talk-transit] One last question (for now)

Tue Sep 8 21:52:06 BST 2009

Peter

ALL timetables shown on traveline south east, east midlands and east anglia
already display NaPTAN names without exception, as do all journey plans on
those systems and on the national Transport Direct journey planner.  The
national arrangements for electronic registration of bus services is also
based on NaPTAN names being used for all timetables ... so all Stagecoach
timetables will be using NaPTAN names by next year ... and others will
follow as electronic registration is implemented across the industry.  There
are many other services where NaPTAN names are already in use nationwide -
such as NextBuses.

Roger

-----Original Message-----
From: talk-transit-bounces at openstreetmap.org
[mailto:talk-transit-bounces at openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Péter Connell
Sent: 08 September 2009 21:28
To: Public transport/transit/shared taxi related topics
Subject: Re: [Talk-transit] One last question (for now)

Hmmm... yeah... the biggest gap is probably spreading to drivers.

I don't think NaPTAN names are going to spread to timetables though. At 
least not in the medium term.

Another question is whether bus stop names are about identifying bus 
stops for navigation, identifying bus stops for getting on buses or 
identifying bus stops for getting /off/ buses.

There is an interesting bit about "landmarks" in stop names as well 
here: http://www.metrobus.co.uk/content/uploads/rte541.pdf

Peter Miller wrote:
>
> On 8 Sep 2009, at 18:09, Jerry Clough - OSM wrote:
>
>> Don't be too hasty (although 5 years seems long enough): there are 
>> two stops on Castle Boulevard, Nottingham named MFI, which must be 2 
>> years 'out-of-date'. Many locals will remember the presence of MFI 
>> long after the chain closed and the site is used for something else. 
>> There is a location on Nottingham ring-road known as The Futurist, 
>> after a cinema which closed in the '60s.
>>
>> This is very similar to bus stops (or even locations) named after 
>> pubs. I'm sure the A40 still has a Target roundabout on the road 
>> between Yeading and Greenford, although I remember the pub becoming a 
>> Macdonalds in the 1980s! There are quite a few bus stops in 
>> Nottingham which have pub names which seem to be changing to a non 
>> pub-based name. So "The Crown at Beeston" has become "Police 
>> Station", two or three stops along "The Hop-Pole" has become 
>> something completely unmemorable (a street name). The two operators 
>> of routes along this road use different names, and not all the bus 
>> signs have been updated. I don't know if this is a policy based on 
>> the current ephemeral nature of pubs (today I mapped lots of boarded 
>> up ones, and even the ones which appeared to be open, often have 
>> "lease this ..." signs outside), or perhaps influenced by 
>> multi-cultural considerations. Unfortunately they also seem to have 
>> changed my favorite in-bus announcment : "Halls of Residences".
>>
>> All in all, this shows that multiple names need to be supported, for 
>> all sorts of reasons. We're not yet at a point where we can collect 
>> and support local names on a large scale: but, it would be 
>> interesting to do so, and bus stops represent a decent sub-set of 
>> localities. Perhaps we should ask the EPNS!
>>
>
> I fully support using OSM as a repository for multiple names which are 
> used by locals for the stop, but not for OSM mappers to be imposing 
> their decision about the name on the general public. Surely that is 
> not correct unless there is very well formed local opinion on the 
> subject and even so that information needs to get back the NaPTAN 
> sometime.
>
> For instance... I used to live near 'Mitcham's Corner' in Cambridge. 
> Mitchams (the department store) closed in the 1960s but the name has 
> stuck. I have just checked and there is not a locality of Mitcham's 
> corner in the NaPTAN gazetteer and the stops in the area are not 
> called 'mitcham's corner' even though that is what I always told the 
> driver was my destination. Interestingly the stops in question are 
> named after a junior school which was demolished and moved 3 years 
> ago! There is clearly some information that needs to get back to 
> Traveline.
>
> There are stops in my current town that are badly named and stop areas 
> that are badly formed. I want more indicator letters to be used to 
> make the naming easier.
>
> There is certainly a valid debate to be had about stop names, but I 
> think the above concerns are still valid.
>
> A very interesting debate.
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Peter
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *From:* Ed Loach <ed at loach.me.uk <mailto:ed at loach.me.uk>>
>> *To:* Public transport/transit/shared taxi related topics 
>> <talk-transit at openstreetmap.org <mailto:talk-transit at openstreetmap.org>>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, 8 September, 2009 15:02:17
>> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-transit] One last question (for now)
>>
>> I asked:
>>
>> > Is it worth questioning the stop names? The ones named "B&Q" in
>> > Clacton for example are outside their old site (now "The
>> > Range"), as B&Q moved to new premises about 5 years ago. I've
>> > not yet been to the B&Q stops to see if they have the name on
>> > (some stops around here do, some don't - and these are two I've
>> > not yet checked).
>>
>> I drove past them yesterday, I think. Neither seem to have any post
>> (let alone a named post), although one has a "BUS STOP" labelled
>> pull in. So names in this case aren't particularly relevant. When I
>> do a proper verify of them I'll remove the OSM name field if it
>> exists but there is no name there.
>>
>> Ed
>>
>>
>>
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