[Talk-transit] One last question (for now)

Péter Connell p8r at connell.plus.com
Tue Sep 8 21:57:57 BST 2009


I mean timetables as in the ones that get printed.

Will believe NaPTAN names - a bit weird in almost every case round here 
- in printed/PDF Stagecoach timetables round here when I see it...

Roger Slevin wrote:
> Péter<<  It's not just an affectation.
>
> ALL timetables shown on traveline south east, east midlands and east anglia
> already display NaPTAN names without exception, as do all journey plans on
> those systems and on the national Transport Direct journey planner.  The
> national arrangements for electronic registration of bus services is also
> based on NaPTAN names being used for all timetables ... so all Stagecoach
> timetables will be using NaPTAN names by next year ... and others will
> follow as electronic registration is implemented across the industry.  There
> are many other services where NaPTAN names are already in use nationwide -
> such as NextBuses.
>
> Roger
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: talk-transit-bounces at openstreetmap.org
> [mailto:talk-transit-bounces at openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Péter Connell
> Sent: 08 September 2009 21:28
> To: Public transport/transit/shared taxi related topics
> Subject: Re: [Talk-transit] One last question (for now)
>
> Hmmm... yeah... the biggest gap is probably spreading to drivers.
>
> I don't think NaPTAN names are going to spread to timetables though. At
> least not in the medium term.
>
> Another question is whether bus stop names are about identifying bus
> stops for navigation, identifying bus stops for getting on buses or
> identifying bus stops for getting /off/ buses.
>
> There is an interesting bit about "landmarks" in stop names as well
> here: http://www.metrobus.co.uk/content/uploads/rte541.pdf
>
>
>
> Peter Miller wrote:
>    
>> On 8 Sep 2009, at 18:09, Jerry Clough - OSM wrote:
>>
>>      
>>> Don't be too hasty (although 5 years seems long enough): there are
>>> two stops on Castle Boulevard, Nottingham named MFI, which must be 2
>>> years 'out-of-date'. Many locals will remember the presence of MFI
>>> long after the chain closed and the site is used for something else.
>>> There is a location on Nottingham ring-road known as The Futurist,
>>> after a cinema which closed in the '60s.
>>>
>>> This is very similar to bus stops (or even locations) named after
>>> pubs. I'm sure the A40 still has a Target roundabout on the road
>>> between Yeading and Greenford, although I remember the pub becoming a
>>> Macdonalds in the 1980s! There are quite a few bus stops in
>>> Nottingham which have pub names which seem to be changing to a non
>>> pub-based name. So "The Crown at Beeston" has become "Police
>>> Station", two or three stops along "The Hop-Pole" has become
>>> something completely unmemorable (a street name). The two operators
>>> of routes along this road use different names, and not all the bus
>>> signs have been updated. I don't know if this is a policy based on
>>> the current ephemeral nature of pubs (today I mapped lots of boarded
>>> up ones, and even the ones which appeared to be open, often have
>>> "lease this ..." signs outside), or perhaps influenced by
>>> multi-cultural considerations. Unfortunately they also seem to have
>>> changed my favorite in-bus announcment : "Halls of Residences".
>>>
>>> All in all, this shows that multiple names need to be supported, for
>>> all sorts of reasons. We're not yet at a point where we can collect
>>> and support local names on a large scale: but, it would be
>>> interesting to do so, and bus stops represent a decent sub-set of
>>> localities. Perhaps we should ask the EPNS!
>>>
>>>        
>> I fully support using OSM as a repository for multiple names which are
>> used by locals for the stop, but not for OSM mappers to be imposing
>> their decision about the name on the general public. Surely that is
>> not correct unless there is very well formed local opinion on the
>> subject and even so that information needs to get back the NaPTAN
>> sometime.
>>
>> For instance... I used to live near 'Mitcham's Corner' in Cambridge.
>> Mitchams (the department store) closed in the 1960s but the name has
>> stuck. I have just checked and there is not a locality of Mitcham's
>> corner in the NaPTAN gazetteer and the stops in the area are not
>> called 'mitcham's corner' even though that is what I always told the
>> driver was my destination. Interestingly the stops in question are
>> named after a junior school which was demolished and moved 3 years
>> ago! There is clearly some information that needs to get back to
>> Traveline.
>>
>> There are stops in my current town that are badly named and stop areas
>> that are badly formed. I want more indicator letters to be used to
>> make the naming easier.
>>
>> There is certainly a valid debate to be had about stop names, but I
>> think the above concerns are still valid.
>>
>> A very interesting debate.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> Peter
>>
>>
>>
>>      
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> *From:* Ed Loach<ed at loach.me.uk<mailto:ed at loach.me.uk>>
>>> *To:* Public transport/transit/shared taxi related topics
>>> <talk-transit at openstreetmap.org<mailto:talk-transit at openstreetmap.org>>
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, 8 September, 2009 15:02:17
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-transit] One last question (for now)
>>>
>>> I asked:
>>>
>>>        
>>>> Is it worth questioning the stop names? The ones named "B&Q" in
>>>> Clacton for example are outside their old site (now "The
>>>> Range"), as B&Q moved to new premises about 5 years ago. I've
>>>> not yet been to the B&Q stops to see if they have the name on
>>>> (some stops around here do, some don't - and these are two I've
>>>> not yet checked).
>>>>          
>>> I drove past them yesterday, I think. Neither seem to have any post
>>> (let alone a named post), although one has a "BUS STOP" labelled
>>> pull in. So names in this case aren't particularly relevant. When I
>>> do a proper verify of them I'll remove the OSM name field if it
>>> exists but there is no name there.
>>>
>>> Ed
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Talk-transit mailing list
>>> Talk-transit at openstreetmap.org<mailto:Talk-transit at openstreetmap.org>
>>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Talk-transit mailing list
>>> Talk-transit at openstreetmap.org<mailto:Talk-transit at openstreetmap.org>
>>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
>>>        
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Talk-transit mailing list
>> Talk-transit at openstreetmap.org
>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
>>
>>      
>
> _______________________________________________
> Talk-transit mailing list
> Talk-transit at openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Talk-transit mailing list
> Talk-transit at openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
>
>    





More information about the Talk-transit mailing list